The official "Tyler Haws is a role player - not a prime time player thread!"

[Jeff Lebowski]

Bump.

PAC 12 announcers talking about Oregon needing to makes ome defensive adjustments for Haws.

Also called him an "incredible athlete".

[cougjunkie]

Also called him an "incredible athlete".

Don't forget KC dunked on someone like a guy at Duke or Kentucky would!

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[Nakoma]

Don't forget KC dunked on someone like a guy at Duke or Kentucky would!

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I thought white men can't jump.

[Topper]

Don't forget KC dunked on someone like a guy at Duke or Kentucky would!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Didn't BYU lose? Some meaningless praise salves the wounds of stinging losses? I don't care what BYU has to do to move to next level, I simply want BYU to win. In spectator sports, winning is the only thing that matters. BYU has played second fiddle for long enough. It is time to move up a notch. And yes how you are playing in March matters most of all.

But absent an incredible conference season, BYU is in danger of being on the cusp of going to the NIT. The Tourney doesn't reward teams for moral victories. BYU's fandom is not very passionate and deludes itself with moral victories of playing well against good opponents.

[Omaha 680]

Didn't BYU lose? Some meaningless praise salves the wounds of stinging losses? I don't care what BYU has to do to move to next level, I simply want BYU to win. In spectator sports, winning is the only thing that matters. BYU has played second fiddle for long enough. It is time to move up a notch. And yes how you are playing in March matters most of all.

But absent an incredible conference season, BYU is in danger of being on the cusp of going to the NIT. The Tourney doesn't reward teams for moral victories. BYU's fandom is not very passionate and deludes itself with moral victories of playing well against good opponents.

This thread is about your ridiculous assessment of Tyler Haws's talent. Please take you general rants about BYU sports to one of the many other threads in which you have already complained.

[Blueintheface]

This thread is about your ridiculous assessment of Tyler Haws's talent. Please take you general rants about BYU sports to one of the many other threads in which you have already complained.

[Topper]

This thread is about your ridiculous assessment of Tyler Haws's talent. Please take you general rants about BYU sports to one of the many other threads in which you have already complained.

My assessment is that he is a good shooter, especially his mid-range jumper, a reliable free throw shooter, but really has shown he can be a game changer and win a game on his back. He doesn't play great defense, and doesn't handle the ball well enough, to just give him the ball. He often relies upon screens and plays designed to free him up.

He has decently quick release, and is taller than Jimmer so it may enable him to go further. But the Oregon game is an example, even though he had played well in that game, and he was covered by a competent Oregon defender much of the time, Callista, I believe it was. Yet his team members didn't or couldn't get him the ball, despite the fact he was playing well. Instead the team played unintelligently during key latter moments.

I stand by my assessment, he is a "role" player in the sense, you can't just give him the ball and watch him carry the team. Instead, you will need to feature him on offense and hide him on defense. If somebody else can take charge and then feature Haws he can be successful. But he is not my definition of a star, prime time player, one who will make a key defensive stop, take the ball the length of the floor and overcome stifling defense to make a key basket. Somebody else must make the defensive play, bring the ball down after he has put himself in a pattern to be successful. In the right system he can be effective, he remains what I call a role player, not a Jabari other more complete player. And yes Jabari has some deficiencies too.

[cougjunkie]

My assessment is that he is a good shooter, especially his mid-range jumper, a reliable free throw shooter, but really has shown he can be a game changer and win a game on his back. He doesn't play great defense, and doesn't handle the ball well enough, to just give him the ball. He often relies upon screens and plays designed to free him up.

He has decently quick release, and is taller than Jimmer so it may enable him to go further. But the Oregon game is an example, even though he had played well in that game, and he was covered by a competent Oregon defender much of the time, Callista, I believe it was. Yet his team members didn't or couldn't get him the ball, despite the fact he was playing well. Instead the team played unintelligently during key latter moments.

I stand by my assessment, he is a "role" player in the sense, you can't just give him the ball and watch him carry the team. Instead, you will need to feature him on offense and hide him on defense. If somebody else can take charge and then feature Haws he can be successful. But he is not my definition of a star, prime time player, one who will make a key defensive stop, take the ball the length of the floor and overcome stifling defense to make a key basket. Somebody else must make the defensive play, bring the ball down after he has put himself in a pattern to be successful. In the right system he can be effective, he remains what I call a role player, not a Jabari other more complete player. And yes Jabari has some deficiencies too.

I am guessing Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kareem, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and just about every big man in the country disagrees that you can't be a star unless you can get a key stop and take the ball the length of the floor and score. They are nothing more than role players as someone needs to feed them the ball.

[Topper]

I am guessing Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kareem, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and just about every big man in the country disagrees that you can't be a star unless you can get a key stop and take the ball the length of the floor and score. They are nothing more than role players as someone needs to feed them the ball.

Granted, in that position, many of them could dominate the paint and overpower the opposition defensively. Chamberlain and Kareem both ran the floor well. I can't specifically remember Russell running the floor. Haws is not a 5 and can't dominate defensively his position, which is either a two or three. Haws has a little bit of ability to create his own space, but not like those guys.

Are you saying that the greatest 2s and 3s couldn't do what I said? Michael Jordan could.

[cougjunkie]

Granted, in that position, many of them could dominate the paint and overpower the opposition defensively. Chamberlain and Kareem both ran the floor well. I can't specifically remember Russell running the floor. Haws is not a 5 and can't dominate defensively his position, which is either a two or three. Haws has a little bit of ability to create his own space, but not like those guys.

Are you saying that the greatest 2s and 3s couldn't do what I said? Michael Jordan could.

I am saying a lot of the best 2's and 3's can't I am also saying that nobody has ever compared Tyler Haws to Michael Jordan (Well I guess you just did). Haws is a great college scorer that can and has taken over a game. I am guessing your wife didn't allow you to watch the Oregon game, so you were unable to see Haws drive in to the paint and score several times off the dribble creating his own shot, or the numerous times he posted up his defender and hit step back jumpers again creating his own shot.

I think you undervalue a guys ability to get himself free off of screens and set plays. That is definitely a desirable skill, Ray Allen has made a living off that in the NBA and he is a first ballot hall of famer, Manu Ginobili as well.

You have much more value to your team when you do not need to dominate the ball in order to score. The Heat are great because the big three can all score off the ball. OKC struggles in the playoffs because Westbrook dominates the ball and it doesn't allow Durant or Ibaka enough touches.

[smokymountainrain]

Granted, in that position, many of them could dominate the paint and overpower the opposition defensively. Chamberlain and Kareem both ran the floor well. I can't specifically remember Russell running the floor. Haws is not a 5 and can't dominate defensively his position, which is either a two or three. Haws has a little bit of ability to create his own space, but not like those guys.

Are you saying that the greatest 2s and 3s couldn't do what I said? Michael Jordan could.

FWIW, Russell probably ran the floor better than all of them. Granted, I'm basing that opinion just on old videos, but he could fly - and then finish.

[Topper]

I am saying a lot of the best 2's and 3's can't I am also saying that nobody has ever compared Tyler Haws to Michael Jordan (Well I guess you just did). Haws is a great college scorer that can and has taken over a game. I am guessing your wife didn't allow you to watch the Oregon game, so you were unable to see Haws drive in to the paint and score several times off the dribble creating his own shot, or the numerous times he posted up his defender and hit step back jumpers again creating his own shot.

I think you undervalue a guys ability to get himself free off of screens and set plays. That is definitely a desirable skill, Ray Allen has made a living off that in the NBA and he is a first ballot hall of famer, Manu Ginobili as well.

You have much more value to your team when you do not need to dominate the ball in order to score. The Heat are great because the big three can all score off the ball. OKC struggles in the playoffs because Westbrook dominates the ball and it doesn't allow Durant or Ibaka enough touches.

I watched the entire Oregon game minus the final ten seconds, when I was pissed.

I do like Haws because he learns. I was frustrated the team did not feed him the ball much at the end of the game. I admit you make some valid points about other players and the value of being able to work off screens and set plays. I am mostly frustrated because of the close losses occasioned in no small part by bonehead plays and bad free throw shooting.

[byu71]

Didn't BYU lose? Some meaningless praise salves the wounds of stinging losses? I don't care what BYU has to do to move to next level, I simply want BYU to win. In spectator sports, winning is the only thing that matters. BYU has played second fiddle for long enough. It is time to move up a notch. And yes how you are playing in March matters most of all.

But absent an incredible conference season, BYU is in danger of being on the cusp of going to the NIT. The Tourney doesn't reward teams for moral victories. BYU's fandom is not very passionate and deludes itself with moral victories of playing well against good opponents.

I do quite enjoy my new fan relationship with BYU. Good team, fun to watch, kids of good character. We aren't going to the final four, the elite 8 or the sweet sixteen. I like watching them play so 3-4 games in the NIT vs 1 and done in the NCAA is alright with me. Of course there is the money thing and more in the NCAA, but we have never been about money.

[Topper]

I do quite enjoy my new fan relationship with BYU. Good team, fun to watch, kids of good character. We aren't going to the final four, the elite 8 or the sweet sixteen. I like watching them play so 3-4 games in the NIT vs 1 and done in the NCAA is alright with me. Of course there is the money thing and more in the NCAA, but we have never been about money.

Well I wish a team of good character from BYU could make it to the Final Four just once.

[byu71]

Well I wish a team of good character from BYU could make it to the Final Four just once.

As long as we are wishing, I would wish for a National Championship.

I would love nothing more than all the "True Blue" Cougar fans to be screaming, "told you so, told you so". Of course when it happens it will probably be because of changes I have wanted for decades.