BYU Coach Dave Rose

[Cutty]

Five guys returning that would have started for Utah. Davies, Hartsock, Collinsworth, Rogers, Abouo. Maybe two newcomers that would have started for Utah, Carlino and Harrison but they are unknown so I won't count them.

We also have a coach with a brilliant system designed for the BYU demographic: up tempo looking for open 3's in transition, we go small so we can open up the offense with shooters all around the perimter, yet crash the boards hard, and have a scrappy defense that switches from man to zone and is designed to guard the perimeter yet be able to sag and double inside. We keep teams off the offensive boards with our fast break.

We also have a fan base completely energized and pouring money into the athletic department, a relationship with ESPN they have incentive to hype. We're locking up every LDS recruit we want are getting attention from high quality non-LDS we've never had a chance with in the past.

We will have two guys on missions who are known all-MWC type players and perfect fits for this system.

We have little brothers of known commodities that are farther along in their progress joining the team in the next couple years.

Utah high school hoops is getting more and more competitive and none of the stars wants to play for Utah and all want to play for BYU. Your fan base is small and full of bandwagoners. You have no recruiting base. We own it. You're forced to go to California where you have no compelling story to tell recruits, which has been painfully obvious the last five years based on your recruiting classes.

BYU: shooting star.

Utah: a little 4th of July groundflower that quickly burned through its life

This is an extremely one sided view of things. If you don't realize how cyclical these things are then you don't understand the history of the two programs. BYU emerged from a 1 win season, there's no reason not to believe Utah will work its way out of mediocrity. There was a time when Utah was getting every top in state guy... and I'm talking about before Majerus. Playing in the P12 as opposed to the WCC _could_ have an affect among local recruits, whether you want to admit it or not.

Look, you had a great season and your program is certainly on the upswing, but you just made your first S16 in 30 years. Don't pretend like you're Duke and Utah is Cardinal Stritch.

[Goatnapper'96]

This is an extremely one sided view of things. If you don't realize how cyclical these things are then you don't understand the history of the two programs. BYU emerged from a 1 win season, there's no reason not to believe Utah will work its way out of mediocrity. There was a time when Utah was getting every top in state guy... and I'm talking about before Majerus. Playing in the P12 as opposed to the WCC _could_ have an affect among local recruits, whether you want to admit it or not.

Look, you had a great season and your program is certainly on the upswing, but you just made your first S16 in 30 years. Don't pretend like you're Duke and Utah is Cardinal Stritch.

The U fired its 2nd straight head coach after it ran off a legend. These post-season posts about BYU pretending it is "_________" and treating Utah like it is "____________" have been a pretty regular for the past six or so years. So perhaps you might forgive us for being skeptical that suddenly the good Doctor remembered how to hire a good head basketball coach. One could very easily argue that there is a pattern of incompetence up at the U and such a pattern could be every bit as indicative of Utah's future success as the cyclical argument.

Personally, I am a believer in luck. Well luck and volleyball court lines on hoops courts. I predict Ute luck is about to change.

REPENT YE, REPENT YE THE KINGDOM OF THE PAC-12 IS CLOSE AT HAND!

[Surfah]

This is an extremely one sided view of things. If you don't realize how cyclical these things are then you don't understand the history of the two programs. BYU emerged from a 1 win season, there's no reason not to believe Utah will work its way out of mediocrity. There was a time when Utah was getting every top in state guy... and I'm talking about before Majerus. Playing in the P12 as opposed to the WCC _could_ have an affect among local recruits, whether you want to admit it or not.

Look, you had a great season and your program is certainly on the upswing, but you just made your first S16 in 30 years. Don't pretend like you're Duke and Utah is Cardinal Stritch.

The difference though is that BYU has a built-in recruiting base that Utah simply doesn't. That's why BYU will never be down for long. It's also why they'll likely never be elite.

[Cutty]

The difference though is that BYU has a built-in recruiting base that Utah simply doesn't. That's why BYU will never be down for long. It's also why they'll likely never be elite.

That's a fair point. Which is why I was arguing for a local guy like Connor. BYU will always have a leg up on the LDS kids. History has shown this. But I don't think Utah is incapable of getting some of the high level local talent. Boylen failed but I think that's more a reflection on him. Don't forget that a buffoon like Ray Giacoletti signed two top in state guys in Daniel Deane and Morgan Grim.

[Goatnapper'96]

That's a fair point. Which is why I was arguing for a local guy like Connor. BYU will always have a leg up on the LDS kids. History has shown this. But I don't think Utah is incapable of getting some of the high level local talent. Boylen failed but I think that's more a reflection on him. Don't forget that a buffoon like Ray Giacoletti signed two top in state guys in Daniel Deane and Morgan Grim.

I thought I read where Jordan Loveridge is not LDS. If BYU can land him over Utah which appears likely at present, that would not be a good omen for Krysto.

[Cutty]

Also, Utah's recruiting base has never been the one BYU is cleaning up on now. Van Horn, Jessie, Miller, Doleac, Mottola, run DMC, Jacobsen, Bogut, Nevill. Majerus was successful in using local talent as role players. Guys like Hansen and Jeff Johnson. Jensen and Britton are pretty much the only star players Utah has recruited from the state since Josh Grant.

The recruiting has to get better everywhere.

[Goatnapper'96]

Also, Utah's recruiting base has never been the one BYU is cleaning up on now. Van Horn, Jessie, Miller, Doleac, Mottola, run DMC, Jacobsen, Bogut, Nevill. Majerus was successful in using local talent as role players. Guys like Hansen and Jeff Johnson. Jensen and Britton are pretty much the only star players Utah has recruited from the state since Josh Grant.

The recruiting has to get better everywhere.

I agree. I think if Utah is sucking at local recruiting they are likely sucking at recruiting nationally. To me it is an indicator. IOW, I don't think Utah needs to recruit well locally to be successful but if they are not recruiting well locally it is probably more likely than not that they are not recruiting well anywhere.

[Blueintheface]

I agree. I think if Utah is sucking at local recruiting they are likely sucking at recruiting nationally. To me it is an indicator. IOW, I don't think Utah needs to recruit well locally to be successful but if they are not recruiting well locally it is probably more likely than not that they are not recruiting well anywhere.

Which is why his assistants will be local guys, or at least one will absolutely have to be. Like it or not, if you don't land one big local name you can kiss off landing anyone of note outside the area. The only mitigating factor in this is the increase in footprint of the PAC-12, but generally this is a rule of recruiting regardless of conference affiliation.

[Cutty]

Boylen was recruiting Loveridge but I'm not sure how hard. According to his Twitter page, he says he has offers from BYU, Colorado St and Weber St.

[LA Ute]

The U fired its 2nd straight head coach after it ran off a legend.

Well..."ran off" is not what happened. I do think the legend ran off, however, at about the time his expiration date was coming up. But that's another story.

So perhaps you might forgive us for being skeptical that suddenly the good Doctor remembered how to hire a good head basketball coach. One could very easily argue that there is a pattern of incompetence up at the U and such a pattern could be every bit as indicative of Utah's future success as the cyclical argument.

Hey, that is not very generous of you. What happened to the guy who thought Hill hiring two straight duds as head basketball coach was mainly bad luck?

Personally, I am a believer in luck. Well luck and volleyball court lines on hoops courts. I predict Ute luck is about to change.

Oh, there he is!

It's interesting that BYU-Utah fans are creating "program low point" smack. "Your program sucked more then than our does now! And we were right about your program being dead forever, but you're wrong about ours!"

Reminds me of when HB Arnett announced the final death of Utah football back in the late 80s based on his conclusion that Utah had lost its LDS recruiting base and would never get it back.

Oops.

Also reminds me of Ute fans gleefully pronouncing BYU basketball dead forever after the 1-25 season. (I, however, knew that like Dracula, BYU basketball would forever be undead.)

Another oops.

As for the volleyball lines, that's just Ute fan smack. I think Santos expresses the honest feelings of BYU fans: you're not thrilled about playing in the WCC and those little gyms, but think it will be OK. Looks like Dave Rose probably feels the same way. Good for him, and good for BYU. I like that guy.

[SeattleUte]

The irony is that until Carlino and Harrison, BYU's recruiting was inferior to Utah's--at least on paper. Even so, there is not much difference between Harrison and Matthews--at least on paper. And Carlino appears to have disappointed Ucla. My point is that in terms of recruiting magnetism, BYU does not appear to have had the upper hand. I give Rose credit for doing a lot more with his talents, at lest so far. But especially after last season's BYU graduations, Utah's admission into the Pac 12, and BYU's self-demotion to the WCC, there most emphatically is no natural established BYU advantage. On the contrary. Finally, BYU may have a 'built-in base' but what leads to that is as much or ore a curse as an advantage, as we've seen.

Utah is better positioned for the future.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well..."ran off" is not what happened. I do think the legend ran off, however, at about the time his expiration date was coming up. But that's another story.



Hey, that is not very generous of you. What happened to the guy who thought Hill hiring two straight duds as head basketball coach was mainly bad luck?



Oh, there he is!

It's interesting that BYU-Utah fans are creating "program low point" smack. "Your program sucked more then than our does now! And we were right about your program being dead forever, but you're wrong about ours!"

Reminds me of when HB Arnett announced the final death of Utah football back in the late 80s based on his conclusion that Utah had lost its LDS recruiting base and would never get it back.

Oops.

Also reminds me of Ute fans gleefully pronouncing BYU basketball dead forever after the 1-25 season. (I, however, knew that like Dracula, BYU basketball would forever be undead.)

Another oops.

As for the volleyball lines, that's just Ute fan smack. I think Santos expresses the honest feelings of BYU fans: you're not thrilled about playing in the WCC and those little gyms, but think it will be OK. Looks like Dave Rose probably feels the same way. Good for him, and good for BYU. I like that guy.

There is a big difference between "low point" and "dead forever". Has anyone said that Utah b-ball is dead forever?

[KillerDog]

I have the same worry. Any insiders know how his recovery is going?

Recovery is going well. CC feels like he could play tomorrow but they are really restricting him in the hopes that he won't have the long term negative affects his injury often brings.

I think one thing people are forgetting when they consider the outlook for next year is that this team is going to go over seas and bond in the off season. That includes Harrison and may include Carlino. It also means Abuou won't spend the off season burning his legs out in true international play. The result of this extra time togethe is that our freshmen will start practice in the fall as though they are already in the middle of the season and their mid-season performance will resemble end of the year performance for a freshman and a redshirt freshman.

I think another item that slips everyone's mind when thinking about how this team will develop is the versatility of some of our returning players. Having guys like Hartsock, CC, Abuou, and Rogers, who can all play 2 or more positions, allows the coaches to get the best 5 guys on the court more easily. That is a key when you lose a big time talent or two. I am different than most in that I believe we could see a team of Davies, Hartsock, CC, Rogers and Abuou take the floor at the same time next year and be very competitive. We would have to play zone but our length would make for a very tough zone. Anyway, I really think we are well positioned to make the tournament next year and, with the emergence of one of our youngsters, we could win a tournament game again.

[Donuthole]

The irony is that until Carlino and Harrison, BYU's recruiting was inferior to Utah's--at least on paper. Even so, there is not much difference between Harrison and Matthews--at least on paper. And Carlino appears to have disappointed Ucla--at least on paper. My point is that in terms of recruiting magnetism, BYU does not appear to have had the upper hand--at least on paper. I give Rose credit for doing a lot more with his talents, at lest so far on paper. But especially after last season's BYU graduations, Utah's admission into the Pac 12, and BYU's self-demotion to the WCC, there most emphatically is no natural established BYU advantage--at least on paper. On the contrary. Finally, BYU may have a 'built-in base' but what leads to that is as much or ore a curse as an advantage, as we've seen--at least paper.

Utah is better positioned for the future--at least on paper.

You got the first two right, but then you omitted a few qualifications, so I FIFY. I won't even bill you.

[Goatnapper'96]

There is a big different between "low point" and "dead forever". Has anyone said that Utah b-ball is dead forever?

I would gleefully like to point out that I am confused with the low point of Utah hoops. It has been referenced so many times the past few years with references to cyclical and various other promises of the power of Ute lore, traditions, prestige and facilities - those same intangible elements that lured in Bennet er uh Rose er uh Krystkowiak! It appears to me that Utah has bounced off that bottom point a few times the past few years.

For the record I don't think Utah hoops is dead forever either. But I am also not convinced this is the low point. I was told that the low point was with Giacolleti and that Utah, with its traditions, prestige, lore and facilities would never return to that low point. Now there is another low point that is reportedly lower and frequented so soon despite the traditions, prestige, lore and facilities that made a return trip to the previous low point "UNTHINKABLE!"

Ute hoops will recover someday. But I am an Army Black Knight fan!