Official Seattle Ute Deposition Thread

[LA Ute]

No, I mean one from '84. On second thought, I'll hold off asking a Ute fan until the weekend your football team is playing for a shot at the Rose Bowl. Either way the timing would be irrelevant to current events. Thanks anyway.

You're welcome. Just trying to help.

[Moliere]

If you took Utefans and CB, put them in a blender, and put it on high for 30 minutes this thread is exactly what you would get.

[UtahDan]

So to sum up, Fredette is the better scorer by a significant margin and accomplished that with a very middling supporting staff (btw, do people think BYU will be bad next year?). While not unable to distribute, Jimmer is the classic scoring point guard who is not asked to do much else.

Andre was a more well rounded college point guard in terms of being able to score, rebound, distribute and defend. He was very unusual in that he did so many things well, whereas Jimmer is unusual in that he does one thing maybe better than anyone. Miller accomplished what he did with a better supporting cast that included two future NBA players (though Hanno didn't play much in his only season). Though not a big scorer most of the time, Andre did take over some important games.

KVH and Fredette are a better comparison and while KVH gets the statistical edge, when you adjust for Jimmer not having the huge roll as an underclassman that KVH did, Jimmer gets the edge.

The comparison is interesting, but they are so different as players and in terms of the teams they played on. I think you can say one or the other is better in areas of their game, but I'm not sure you can really say who is "better." In my view anyway.

[creekster]

So to sum up, Fredette is the better scorer by a significant margin and accomplished that with a very middling supporting staff (btw, do people think BYU will be bad next year?). While not unable to distribute, Jimmer is the classic scoring point guard who is not asked to do much else.

Andre was a more well rounded college point guard in terms of being able to score, rebound, distribute and defend. He was very unusual in that he did so many things well, whereas Jimmer is unusual in that he does one thing maybe better than anyone. Miller accomplished what he did with a better supporting cast that included two future NBA players (though Hanno didn't play much in his only season). Though not a big scorer most of the time, Andre did take over some important games.

KVH and Fredette are a better comparison and while KVH gets the statistical edge, when you adjust for Jimmer not having the huge roll as an underclassman that KVH did, Jimmer gets the edge.

The comparison is interesting, but they are so different as players and in terms of the teams they played on. I think you can say one or the other is better in areas of their game, but I'm not sure you can really say who is "better." In my view anyway.

Once again we see the sum being greater (or longer) than most fo the parts.

[CardiacCoug]

So to sum up, Fredette is the better scorer by a significant margin and accomplished that with a very middling supporting staff (btw, do people think BYU will be bad next year?). While not unable to distribute, Jimmer is the classic scoring point guard who is not asked to do much else.

I think BYU will be an NCAA tourney team next season.

Davies, Collinsworth, Hartsock, Abouo, Carlino (second half of season I guess) is a pretty solid core of guys. Rogers, Harrison, Winder should be decent.

The strength of the team will switch from the backcourt to the frontcourt if Davies sticks around and is eligible for next season.

[MarkGrace]

The comparison is interesting, but they are so different as players and in terms of the teams they played on.

Agree. I think this whole "Jimmer's not as good as Dre until he gets his team to the Final Four" stuff is just Ute fans trying to get Cougar fan's goat. How can you possibly take a team accomplishment and parlay it into an argument that one individual player is better than another without some additional context?

I loved Dre as college player and have always liked him as a pro. I watched the Utes a bunch back in those years (even attended every one of Dre's home games his Sr. year), and that Ute Final Four team was in my mind significantly more talented and overall better than this Cougar team. Yeah, it's been mentioned that they had two NBA players, but it's more than that. They had two NBA lottery picks, but a total of four guys who sniffed the NBA, plus an additional two that played professionally in Europe (though I know David Jackson wasn't much of a contributor on that team). All told, they had six freakin guys on that team that played professional basketball. How many from this Cougar team have a shot outside of Jimmer, especially when you take out Davies?

People said that I was a dick for saying this in chat last night, but when I watch the Cougars I honestly don't see that great a team. The results speak for themselves: 30-3, top ten ranking and now Sweet Sixteen. Yet when I watch them, I wonder how in the world they achieved those results since the vast majority of the guys on the floor seem like marginal D-1 talents. And, really, it's because they have a historic talent carrying them, because outside of him this team isn't much to look at.

That Utah team was an exceptional collection of talent, and an extemely well balanced basketball team. They had All-American talent at PG, they had an lotto NBA talent in the post, they had an additional NBA talent at the 4, they had two defensive stoppers in every sense of the word, both of which were solid shooters, and one of which was an absolute deadeye to help space the floor, and they had some competent talent on the bench. That's before even factoring in a true basketball genius putting on what has to be among the handful of very best coaching and strategic performances in the history of the NCAA tourney (which to me is the second biggest story on that team to only Miller's terrific performance).

It's insane to say that Jimmer isn't as good as Miller until he takes his team to the FF. That team was a lot bigger than Andre Miller, and it was a lot better than this Cougar team.

[PaloAltoCougar]

...People said that I was a dick for saying this in chat last night, but when I watch the Cougars I honestly don't see that great a team. The results speak for themselves: 30-3, top ten ranking and now Sweet Sixteen. Yet when I watch them, I wonder how in the world they achieved those results since the vast majority of the guys on the floor seem like marginal D-1 talents. And, really, it's because they have a historic talent carrying them, because outside of him this team isn't much to look at....

I concur with your thoughts throughout your post, but would put a different spin on this one. Looking only at the individual players, you're right. But an essential element of any team is how a coach puts the team together, and how he adapts to situations throughout the season. In that respect, I think BYU is very good, resulting in a team that is much, much more than the sum of its parts.

Not much to look at? Well, yes, BYU doesn't have the top-to-bottom talent of many of the perennial powers, but it has been an absolute joy to behold.

[TripletDaddy]

Keep in mind that we should be playing with Collinsworth, Davies, and Loyd.

My main takeaway from all of this is that the program is in great hands with Rose. Dude knows how to stock the cupboards given the inherent limitations of recruiting for BYU. He put together a National championship caliber team this season and has proven to be able to see talent where others may have missed it. Plus he is giving away martineaus schollie. Bonus!

[MarkGrace]

Keep in mind that we should be playing with Collinsworth, Davies, and Loyd.

And too bad they couldn't keep Haws off a mission, would have been quite the team.

[Surfah]

Keep in mind that we should be playing with Collinsworth, Davies, and Loyd.

My main takeaway from all of this is that the program is in great hands with Rose. Dude knows how to stock the cupboards given the inherent limitations of recruiting for BYU. He put together a National championship caliber team this season and has proven to be able to see talent where others may have missed it. Plus he is giving away martineaus schollie. Bonus!

Amen. I can't say enough about Rose and the job he has done. And the pipeline seems to be locked and loaded. I am curious what if any effect this will have on someone like Jabari Parker.

[jay santos]

Amen. I can't say enough about Rose and the job he has done. And the pipeline seems to be locked and loaded. I am curious what if any effect this will have on someone like Jabari Parker.

I read this morning Rose pulls Martineau's schollie and offers it to a kid out of North Carolina and my immediate reaction is "YES this is the PERFECT time to capitalize on this publicity and reign in a big recruit we wouldn't ordinarily get". And then I see it's a white LDS kid whose best offer is Utah State.

[CardiacCoug]

I read this morning Rose pulls Martineau's schollie and offers it to a kid out of North Carolina and my immediate reaction is "YES this is the PERFECT time to capitalize on this publicity and reign in a big recruit we wouldn't ordinarily get". And then I see it's a white LDS kid whose best offer is Utah State.

Yeah and UNC-Wilmington. I had the same reaction. I don't think Martineau is that bad -- he would probably be a perfectly adequate distributor-type point guard with a good team around him. I don't think we've seen enough of Martineau to say at this point, but maybe Rose has seen enough in practice.

But apparently Roy Williams is interested in Stilman White.

[Surfah]

I read this morning Rose pulls Martineau's schollie and offers it to a kid out of North Carolina and my immediate reaction is "YES this is the PERFECT time to capitalize on this publicity and reign in a big recruit we wouldn't ordinarily get". And then I see it's a white LDS kid whose best offer is Utah State.

The kid may get an offer to UNC.

[Jarid in Cedar]

The kid may get an offer to UNC.

And if Utah would get their shit together, he will have an offer from us as well.

[pellegrino]

Yeah and UNC-Wilmington. I had the same reaction. I don't think Martineau is that bad -- he would probably be a perfectly adequate distributor-type point guard with a good team around him. I don't think we've seen enough of Martineau to say at this point, but maybe Rose has seen enough in practice.

But apparently Roy Williams is interested in Stilman White.

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=14200980