Would you be in favor of reinstating Davies now?

[jay santos]

Do y'all feel differently knowing this wasn't just getting a little sumthin'-sumthin' on his hang-down, but also that knocked up his 'thang on the side'? The cynic in me says the situation would be entirely different without the baby on the way (confirmed by the girl's family, and is "very likely" to be his).

FTR, the UW Huskies just suspended their senior PG for the PAC tournament (no word on a suspension for the NCAA tourney, if they make it). Ironically they waited until charges were filed. He also got a little sumthin'-sumthin', but the problem was he first provided her with alcohol and second she was only 16 years old (he is ~22?).

So will BYU go the Husky route, keep him out for the tourney, then reinstate him for March Madness? I honestly can't see that happening.

No baby, no suspension. I think that's the new rule at BYU.

Since Ronney Jenkins, I believe there is no documented case of an athlete getting kicked out for non-gangrape-accusation, non-pregnancy sex.

Outside of athletes, kids just don't get kicked out of BYU for sex. It just doesn't happen.

[Flystripper]

I think BYU would get mocked for being hypocritical and bowing to the pressure of wanting to win in basketball. Therefore they would never do it in a million years.

The reason people are crediting BYU is they assume the church really does kick students out for sex. When in actuality, they don't. They only do it when there is potential for it becoming public. So the church's actions with Davies actually are inconsistent and hypocritical, yet they appear consistent. And if the church overturned the decision, it actually would be a consistent act and the right thing to do, yet it would appear hypocritical.

yep

[falafel]

Outside of athletes, kids just don't get kicked out of BYU for sex. It just doesn't happen.

Oh please. Like any of us can actually substantiate a statement like that.

[DapperDan]

I think BYU would get mocked for being hypocritical and bowing to the pressure of wanting to win in basketball. Therefore they would never do it in a million years.

The reason people are crediting BYU is they assume the church really does kick students out for sex. When in actuality, they don't. They only do it when there is potential for it becoming public. So the church's actions with Davies actually are inconsistent and hypocritical, yet they appear consistent. And if the church overturned the decision, it actually would be a consistent act and the right thing to do, yet it would appear hypocritical.

With the Tressel incident(s?) to compare and contrast, I don't think BYU would take too much heat. After all it's only a school rule, not an NCAA violation, and one without a defined punishment. BYU could spin it about further investigation, blah blah, Davies repentant attitude, him ratting himself out etc as to why they decided to be merciful. There would be some cynics saying it's just about winning, but probably fewer than BYU has to listen to now.

[jay santos]

Oh please. Like any of us can actually substantiate a statement like that.

Here's my two data points. I've thrown this out several times.

1. I talked to the Director of Honor Code Office about ten years ago, and he told me only a handful of students per year are expelled by the Honor Code Office.

2. I've talked to three different BYU bishops over the years and asked how many times one of their students was kicked out of BYU by the Honor Code Office during their tenure. Only one total of the three bishops. Out of about ten years worth of BYU wards. What percent do you think that works out to as a ratio of fornicators to expelled? My guess is somewhere under 1%, which to me is insignificant enough to say it doesn't happen.

[dixdog]

I asked my only connection with the higher ups at the church. Davies won't be reinstated this season. It's not going to happen. I am crushed.

[falafel]

Here's my two data points. I've thrown this out several times.

1. I talked to the Director of Honor Code Office about ten years ago, and he told me only a handful of students per year are expelled by the Honor Code Office.

2. I've talked to three different BYU bishops over the years and asked how many times one of their students was kicked out of BYU by the Honor Code Office during their tenure. Only one total of the three bishops. Out of about ten years worth of BYU wards. What percent do you think that works out to as a ratio of fornicators to expelled? My guess is somewhere under 1%, which to me is insignificant enough to say it doesn't happen.

despite your admittedly out of date data, why are we talking about getting kicked out of school in relation to Davies? Davies hasn't been kicked out of school. So he fits your profile.

[jay santos]

despite your admittedly out of date data, why are we talking about getting kicked out of school in relation to Davies? Davies hasn't been kicked out of school. So he fits your profile.

That's true. This is a strange case. I assume he'll be kicked out for a semester, but we don't know yet.

Maybe my data's out of date, but if you're in tune to BYU at all, you have to know that intuitively it's obvious. Intuitively, you know a large percent (5? 10? 20?) of kids are having sex at BYU. Intuitively, you know thousands per year are not being kicked out of school. Ask a BYU bishop or someone you know at BYU or recently attended. I'll bet they uphold the general assumptions that a large percent have sex and hardly anyone gets kicked out.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Outside of athletes, kids just don't get kicked out of BYU for sex. It just doesn't happen.

I have to wonder if this would have happened at all minus the pressure from the newspaper writer?

[jay santos]

I have to wonder if this would have happened at all minus the pressure from the newspaper writer?

I think a pregnancy forces it to be public. The last four BYU athletes kicked out for sex (other than Gangbang I and II) were Wesley, Mahe, Unga, Davies. Either the new policy is pregnancy you're out, no pregnancy you're in, or BYU athletes are tremendously potent.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Cougars certainly are fecund.

We went through many years of infertility before having children. To this day my wife and I are astounded by (and a bit jealous of) women who merely get downwind of man and get preggers.

[falafel]

Cougars certainly are fecund.

We went through many years of infertility before having children. To this day my wife and I are astounded by (and a bit jealous of) women who merely get downwind of man and get preggers.

No offense to anyone on this board, but I wish this word would go the way of the dodo.

[Surfah]

No baby, no suspension. I think that's the new rule at BYU.

Since Ronney Jenkins, I believe there is no documented case of an athlete getting kicked out for non-gangrape-accusation, non-pregnancy sex.

Outside of athletes, kids just don't get kicked out of BYU for sex. It just doesn't happen.

Was Ronney's gf an athlete? She was booted too.

[jay santos]

Was Ronney's gf an athlete? She was booted too.

Well for 1) I'm making a case for what the new standard is, which seems to have changed since Ronney and 2) the point is, if your rule breaking becomes public, we chop you, whether you're an athlete, you did it with an athlete, or you're on a reality show on MTV.


You can check the Handbook, that actually is part of the criteria for whether to excommunicate. If the sins become well known in the public, that weighs in favor of heavier discipline.

[Flystripper]

You can check the Handbook, that actually is part of the criteria for whether to excommunicate. If the sins become well known in the public, that weighs in favor of heavier discipline.

Which makes no sense to me at all.