To take a break here and discuss Utah hoops...

[SeattleUte]

I was not a Majerus basher. I never thought we could get an X and Os coach that was as good as Majerus. I was naive and thought that we could get a coach that could make up for being a lesser coach with better recruiting than Majerus. I was wrong because not only was Majerus our best X and Os coach he was also our best recruiter. Boylen and Giacoletti have not been able to match Majerus' recruiting ability or coaching ability. I would kill to have Majerus back at Utah, his "down" years look amazing compared to anything that Boylen and Giac have given us.

Majerus also got lucky recruiting. All his best players were underappreciated by bigger programs and overlooked, and would have been vacuumed up by bigger programs had those programs appreciated the kids' true potential. Give Majerus credit for seeing things that others did not. But he also had a very large proportion of busts.

This is what I used to point out when the morons on Utefans would cry about his high turnover. High turnover is a part of the deal at Utah. Even Whitingham still has to recruit guys that are for whatever reason under the radar for the most part (that's becoming less so, because he's winning as much as Majerus did, and he's less of a freak personally). You need to be patient with players like that. Sometimes they redsirt, usually they take years to develop. In the end, with good coaching, patience and some luck, you can get guys that will take you to the pinnacle. But a large percentage of guys simply don't make it.

Bogut of course was an accident. He didn't have North Carolina chasing him, and North Carolina sure would have recruited him had it known about him. Van Horn was second tier, Andre Miller was a football player, virtually unrecruited. Doleac didn't start playing basketball till he was 16 adn wasn't much recruited; in fact, Majerus offered him at a summer camp when he'd been a bench warmer his freshman year and Doleac's dad was afraid Majerus was teasing him. Alex Jensen was not a national recruit. Marc Jackson, one of my favorites, was not heavily recruited, was a surprise stud, and quit the team.

[SeattleUte]

Remember all the hoopla about "Run DMC"? lol. Utefans loved those guys because Majerus finally recruited some AA's. Well, they were no higher rated than the current incoming class, probably lower. And most if not all of those guys were total busts. Markson was okay.

[SeattleUte]

There are a few players that I would have loved to have seen in a Utah uniform and Utah State has two of the recent ones in Tyler Newbold and Jared Quayle. Both would have been big players in the program.

There is also the big kid that signed on with a Big-12 school last year, though I can't remember his name.

I hope that the Utes are recruiting Tyrrell Corbin out of West High right now. Besides Collinsworth (who signed with BYU), this is the best player in the state. He is just finishing up his Junior year, but he has a real shot at being a terrific college player.

We've got to do better than dipping into the Utah State tier. Look what happened to Utah State when it played quality teams this year. Sorry, but it won't be long before we'll be playing in Pauly Pavilion for conference games. I expect more out of Boylen than Utah State good. The guy to get last year was CJ Wilcox. It's fair to ask how did we miss on him because apparently he had no intention of going to BYU and had Utah on his shortlist. But his dad went to BYU, he's from Utah County, and Romar decided he really wanted Wilcox. That's a good excuse to have lost him.

Utah has been a tough sell in basketball because basketball is an urban game, and Utah isn't attractive to people from big cities.

[UteStar]

Bogut of course was an accident. He didn't have North Carolina chasing him, and North Carolina sure would have recruited him had it known about him. Van Horn was second tier, Andre Miller was a football player, virtually unrecruited. Doleac didn't start playing basketball till he was 16 adn wasn't much recruited; in fact, Majerus offered him at a summer camp when he'd been a bench warmer his freshman year and Doleac's dad was afraid Majerus was teasing him. Alex Jensen was not a national recruit. Marc Jackson, one of my favorites, was not heavily recruited, was a surprise stud, and quit the team.

You make some good points but not entirely accurate. Van Horn was recruited by some Pac-10 schools but he bonded with Majerus rather quickly. He was seen as a real talent. Miller was recruited by a lot of big schools, but they mainly backed out because of his grades. Majerus did not let that deter him and took him on where Miller was a Prop-48.

Majerus locked onto Doleac when he was young and got him to verbal before his junior year. After his Junior year, a bunch of schools re-recruited him only to have him tell them that he was sticking with his committment to Utah.

Jensen was not a national recruit but a big state of Utah recruit where he was Mr. Basketball. Britton was recruited hard to go outside of the state but decided to play for Majerus. Marc Jackson is an interesting one but he was a HUGE Utah fan growing up--but ended up hating Majerus, quit and came back under Giacoletti.

Majerus was a very good recruiter and he brought in some high profile recruits--David Jackson was another one who didn't pan out as hoped for, but he was a Parade All American. Travis Spivey was a HUGE Juco recruit that did not pan out too well either. But Majerus took risks and those risks often exploded on him.

[UteStar]

Remember all the hoopla about "Run DMC"? lol. Utefans loved those guys because Majerus finally recruited some AA's. Well, they were no higher rated than the current incoming class, probably lower. And most if not all of those guys were total busts. Markson was okay.

Actually, that is not correct. That recruiting class and the one after was pretty terrific. Markson averaged 13 points and 5 boards as a senior for Utah. Chaney averaged about 15 points per game his senior year for Troy, where they went to the NCAA tourney. Hawkins was recruited by DMC and he had a nice career at Utah until he left to play for New Mexico State and he was absolutely terrific there.

If Chaney and Hawkins had both stayed at Utah for their full 4 years, the Utes would have looked pretty good.

[SeattleUte]

You make some good points but not entirely accurate. Van Horn was recruited by some Pac-10 schools but he bonded with Majerus rather quickly. He was seen as a real talent. Miller was recruited by a lot of big schools, but they mainly backed out because of his grades. Majerus did not let that deter him and took him on where Miller was a Prop-48.

Majerus locked onto Doleac when he was young and got him to verbal before his junior year. After his Junior year, a bunch of schools re-recruited him only to have him tell them that he was sticking with his committment to Utah.

Jensen was not a national recruit but a big state of Utah recruit where he was Mr. Basketball. Britton was recruited hard to go outside of the state but decided to play for Majerus. Marc Jackson is an interesting one but he was a HUGE Utah fan growing up--but ended up hating Majerus, quit and came back under Giacoletti.

Majerus was a very good recruiter and he brought in some high profile recruits--David Jackson was another one who didn't pan out as hoped for, but he was a Parade All American. Travis Spivey was a HUGE Juco recruit that did not pan out too well either. But Majerus took risks and those risks often exploded on him.

Wasn't Spivey a felon? Using David Jackson to make your case is like giving up. A 6-3 stiff. Probably coaches like Dean Smith could see it.

Every one of these guys had a story about why he wasn't pursued by premier programs, except maybe Van Horn. I've only heard Van Horn was recruited by Arizona State.

The other thing is that Majerus inherited a good team from Lynn Archibald. It had the usual kind of Utah players, but a large number who had been there a couple of years and were starting to produce. This gave him a great start in terms of building something. He got the Utes to the Sweet 16 his first year.

Personally, I don't think Boylen has been lagging behind his predecessors in recruiting. I'm not convinced he has the crazy dilligence and brilliance to build a steel trap program like Majerus did. But I think he's been recruiting as well as any of his predecors. The best LDS kid last year may have been Josh Olsen. We won't find out hwo good he is for a long time, apparently, though, and if they fire Boylen maybe he'll transfer.

As for Utah kids, there just haven't been any Marc Jacksons or Alex Jensens to recruit in Utah's traditional areas.

[SeattleUte]

Actually, that is not correct. That recruiting class and the one after was pretty terrific. Markson averaged 13 points and 5 boards as a senior for Utah. Chaney averaged about 15 points per game his senior year for Troy, where they went to the NCAA tourney. Hawkins was recruited by DMC and he had a nice career at Utah until he left to play for New Mexico State and he was absolutely terrific there.

If Chaney and Hawkins had both stayed at Utah for their full 4 years, the Utes would have looked pretty good.

Run DMC were not top 100 guys, they did not get high star ratings on Rivals or 90+ ratings on ESPN. They were not offered by major programs. If you're satisfied with that class, you should be feeling fine about the incoming one because you have no basis for believing RunDMC was better than this incoming class.

EDIT: Yikes. I just found this. I wonder why they didn't turn out any better than they did. I guess people who wonder if I ever admit I'm wrong have their answer now.

http://espn.go.com/recruiting/s/010815top100.html

[SeattleUte]

lol Tim Drisdom no. 56 Deron Williams no. 100. So much for recruiting rankings.

[UteStar]

Run DMC were not top 100 guys, they did not get high star ratings on Rivals or 90+ ratings on ESPN. They were not offered by major programs. If you're satisfied with that class, you should be feeling fine about the incoming one because you have no basis for believing RunDMC was better than this incoming class.

Wrong again...Markson and Drisdom were both top flight recruits. Do you even follow some of this?

Here is the direct ESPN article on the Utes getting Drisdom and Markson:

Timothy Drisdom, the 6-3, 195-pound senior point guard from Calvary Chapel High School in Downey, Calif., gave a verbal commitment on Tuesday afternoon to Rick Majerus and the Utah Utes. Drisdom is one of the better passing point guards in the country, but also led the adidas ABCD Camp this year in 3-point field goal shooting, knocking down over 67 percent from behind the arc.

Drisdom was high on Majerus wish list and his parents took an unofficial visit to the Utah campus last week while Drisdom was competing at the adidas Big Time Tournament in Las Vegas. Drisdom plays for the Los Angeles Rockfish club and has drawn favorable comparisons to another former Rockfish player, Andre Miller, who went on to become an All-American at Utah and is one of the best young point guards in the NBA. Reportedly, Majerus was ecstatic with Drisdom's verbal commitment.

Expect Majerus to get another welcome surprise this week when 6-7 swingman Bryant Markson (Monrovia H.S./Monrovia, Calif.) gives him a call, also pledging his verbal commitment to the Utes. Markson, who was one of the top juniors in the country (he made the underclass all-star game at last summer's adidas ABCD Camp), has been off the summer circuit, recuperating from ACL surgery. Markson is a teammate and good friend of Drisdom on the Los Angeles Rockfish and he expressed that the commitment of Drisdom, along with the chance to be coached by Majerus, was key in his decision.

Markson, who averaged 24 points, 12 rebounds and 4 assists last season for his high school, has still been heavily recruited by major colleges, selecting Utah over Kansas, Arizona, Wyoming, Southern California and New Mexico. Even after he injured his knee this spring, both Majerus and Kansas head coach Roy Williams made special visits to Markson's high school to express their interest while Markson went through a very limited workout. With his rehabilitation going ahead of schedule, Markson is expected to be cleared for the start of high school practice in November and should be ready to play once the high school season begins in December, but he's not expected to return to 100 percent until the spring of 2002.

When healthy, Markson is one of the more athletic players in the country. He's got some raw spots in his game, but he's also got some great scoring instincts and superb playground moves (he's constantly facing double-teams in high school). He's a very good rebounder for a swingman, runs the floor exceptionally well and even has a knack for blocking jump shots.

From a recruiting standpoint, it seems like a win-win situation. Markson has a chance to be an exceptional collegiate player if he improves his fundamentals (a Majerus strongpoint), while Majerus has been dying for a long, lean major league athlete like Markson. And Markson gets a chance to play with his favorite point guard, Drisdom, who is one of the better leaders and passers in high school basketball.


So, yes, it was a very nice recruiting class even if your selective memory tells you something differently.

[Blueintheface]

lol Tim Drisdom no. 56 Deron Williams no. 100. So much for recruiting rankings.

Makes you wonder how Guilot will actually turn out given the effusive praise you already seem to be piling on this kid. If he's anywhere as good as Drisdom I hope you like eating crow. To be fair and not to sound too pompous, I'm proud of you for at least implying that you were wrong, if not actually saying it. Sometimes it's good for the soul.

[SeattleUte]

Wrong again...Markson and Drisdom were both top flight recruits. Do you even follow some of this?

Here is the direct ESPN article on the Utes getting Drisdom and Markson:

Timothy Drisdom, the 6-3, 195-pound senior point guard from Calvary Chapel High School in Downey, Calif., gave a verbal commitment on Tuesday afternoon to Rick Majerus and the Utah Utes. Drisdom is one of the better passing point guards in the country, but also led the adidas ABCD Camp this year in 3-point field goal shooting, knocking down over 67 percent from behind the arc.

Drisdom was high on Majerus wish list and his parents took an unofficial visit to the Utah campus last week while Drisdom was competing at the adidas Big Time Tournament in Las Vegas. Drisdom plays for the Los Angeles Rockfish club and has drawn favorable comparisons to another former Rockfish player, Andre Miller, who went on to become an All-American at Utah and is one of the best young point guards in the NBA. Reportedly, Majerus was ecstatic with Drisdom's verbal commitment.

Expect Majerus to get another welcome surprise this week when 6-7 swingman Bryant Markson (Monrovia H.S./Monrovia, Calif.) gives him a call, also pledging his verbal commitment to the Utes. Markson, who was one of the top juniors in the country (he made the underclass all-star game at last summer's adidas ABCD Camp), has been off the summer circuit, recuperating from ACL surgery. Markson is a teammate and good friend of Drisdom on the Los Angeles Rockfish and he expressed that the commitment of Drisdom, along with the chance to be coached by Majerus, was key in his decision.

Markson, who averaged 24 points, 12 rebounds and 4 assists last season for his high school, has still been heavily recruited by major colleges, selecting Utah over Kansas, Arizona, Wyoming, Southern California and New Mexico. Even after he injured his knee this spring, both Majerus and Kansas head coach Roy Williams made special visits to Markson's high school to express their interest while Markson went through a very limited workout. With his rehabilitation going ahead of schedule, Markson is expected to be cleared for the start of high school practice in November and should be ready to play once the high school season begins in December, but he's not expected to return to 100 percent until the spring of 2002.

When healthy, Markson is one of the more athletic players in the country. He's got some raw spots in his game, but he's also got some great scoring instincts and superb playground moves (he's constantly facing double-teams in high school). He's a very good rebounder for a swingman, runs the floor exceptionally well and even has a knack for blocking jump shots.

From a recruiting standpoint, it seems like a win-win situation. Markson has a chance to be an exceptional collegiate player if he improves his fundamentals (a Majerus strongpoint), while Majerus has been dying for a long, lean major league athlete like Markson. And Markson gets a chance to play with his favorite point guard, Drisdom, who is one of the better leaders and passers in high school basketball.


So, yes, it was a very nice recruiting class even if your selective memory tells you something differently.

I admitted I was wrong before your personal attacks. Very declasse of you.

This is the least I would have expected after the Final 2.

All I'm saying is that if you take the long view Boylen's recruiting has been good enough. He's accumulated a fair number of decent young prospects. If you read the ESPN blerbs on Henderson, Lee, etc. you'll see a lot of really positive stuff. Supposedly Henderson was recruited by Big East and Big 12 schools.

But yes, the jury is out on Boylen. It's out. People ought to just wait for the games to happen.

I may not follow recruiting as closely as you do, but unlike some of you, I don't pretend I know more about the coaching profession than a DI coach does.

[SeattleUte]

Makes you wonder how Guilot will actually turn out given the effusive praise you already seem to be piling on this kid. If he's anywhere as good as Drisdom I hope you like eating crow. To be fair and not to sound too pompous, I'm proud of you for at least implying that you were wrong, if not actually saying it. Sometimes it's good for the soul.

Moron, I've never utted Guilot's name. I don't even know how to pronounce or spell it. I do know he's at least as highly regarded as Marc Jackson was coming out of high school.

If UteStar was a BYU fan he'd really be panicking about BYU's classes, at least on paper.

[Blueintheface]

Moron

"I admitted I was wrong before your personal attacks. Very declasse of you." SU circa...oh I'd say....2 min ago.

LOL

[UteStar]

Moron, I've never utted Guilot's name. I don't even know how to pronounce or spell it. I do know he's at least as highly regarded as Marc Jackson was coming out of high school.

If UteStar was a BYU fan he'd really be panicking about BYU's classes, at least on paper.

I have never panic-ed about the Ute recruiting class. I will say that I would like him to recruit more locally and from what I have heard from those in various schools, he doesn't recruit much at all in Utah. I have not attacked or insinuated that Boylen is not a good coach. My entire argument in all of this has been some of your ill-informed comments about poor past recruits from Utah.

I like Boylen a lot. He is the most enthusiastic coach for the Utes that I can remember. I love his passion. I actually think he has recruited fairly well for Utah. My concern about Boylen is that he seems out of his depth in regards to running an offense. That can change though and if the Utes can get a good point guard, that could change dramatically.

I think Boylen can still pull it off.

[SeattleUte]

I have never panic-ed about the Ute recruiting class. I will say that I would like him to recruit more locally and from what I have heard from those in various schools, he doesn't recruit much at all in Utah. I have not attacked or insinuated that Boylen is not a good coach. My entire argument in all of this has been some of your ill-informed comments about poor past recruits from Utah.

I like Boylen a lot. He is the most enthusiastic coach for the Utes that I can remember. I love his passion. I actually think he has recruited fairly well for Utah. My concern about Boylen is that he seems out of his depth in regards to running an offense. That can change though and if the Utes can get a good point guard, that could change dramatically.

I think Boylen can still pull it off.

I'm alarmed that you think he should start eating out of Disco's rice bowl.

(I corrected panicked. More declasse.)