2020 General Presidential Election Thread

[Eddie]

COVID and the response to COVID has been so politicized from the beginning there is absolutely nothing Trump could've done that would've resulted in anyone saying he did a good job with it. Those of you who think otherwise are lying to yourselves.

I mean - Trump tries to shut down international travel from hot spot areas, and he gets jumped on as a xenophobe. You really think other actions he would've taken would've been met with applause and happiness from the Dems?

Yeah - Trump has been a disaster. He can't keep the message straight on whether to wear masks or not, how serious the virus is or isn't, or what medications people should or shouldn't take. I completely agree with that.

I also tend to believe that shutting down and opening up stuff is probably better done on a state/county basis than a country basis. So in many ways, I'm happy that Trump left it to states to make those decisions. I also acknowledge that his Health and Human Services people could've/should've (assuming they haven't been) been bringing together the state HHS people together for at least weekly phone conferences sharing what they've learned and what is versus isn't working. We are still UNITED states, we can help and learn from each other.

But to say that both the economy and the COVID would be SO much better off if Trump had responded early (when the Dems were reacting horrifically to what little he did do) shows a lack of understanding of just how politicized this is and just how much the Dems hate Trump and would be unwilling to support anything of the sort.

[Flystripper]

COVID and the response to COVID has been so politicized from the beginning there is absolutely nothing Trump could've done that would've resulted in anyone saying he did a good job with it. Those of you who think otherwise are lying to yourselves.

I mean - Trump tries to shut down international travel from hot spot areas, and he gets jumped on as a xenophobe. You really think other actions he would've taken would've been met with applause and happiness from the Dems?

Yeah - Trump has been a disaster. He can't keep the message straight on whether to wear masks or not, how serious the virus is or isn't, or what medications people should or shouldn't take. I completely agree with that.

I also tend to believe that shutting down and opening up stuff is probably better done on a state/county basis than a country basis. So in many ways, I'm happy that Trump left it to states to make those decisions. I also acknowledge that his Health and Human Services people could've/should've (assuming they haven't been) been bringing together the state HHS people together for at least weekly phone conferences sharing what they've learned and what is versus isn't working. We are still UNITED states, we can help and learn from each other.

But to say that both the economy and the COVID would be SO much better off if Trump had responded early (when the Dems were reacting horrifically to what little he did do) shows a lack of understanding of just how politicized this is and just how much the Dems hate Trump and would be unwilling to support anything of the sort.

I hear you. Why do you think the Dems believed Trump was being xenophobic?

[Uncle Ted]

I hear you. Why do you think the Dems believed Trump was being xenophobic?

Because Grandpa Joe mumbled about it and criticized Drumpf the day he imposed travel restrictions to China...

Then all the other Dem sheep followed and started using the word too.

BTW, can they just get someone to read Biden's speech for him? He is painful to listen to.

[SeattleUte]

Those blaming Trump for Covid (I hear “Trump has killed 170,000 people!”) have two big hurdles to clear. First, would a federal response have been legal? What is the constitutional basis? The all-purpose Interstate Commerce Clause? Maybe, but here’s NPR’s legal correspondent in April saying a federal response probably is not legally possible (of course he wrote this when Trump was threatening federal action). https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02/82529...ne-experts-say

Indeed, I think Trump gave the states what they wanted. They have made it clear they want no federal intervention in Covid, riots, etc. Especially true of Blue states.

Second, it’s easy to talk about a coordinated federal response, but what should have been done that wasn’t at the state and federal level? In fact, we’ve learned that Covid is most effectively addressed at the local if not the individual level. Masks, social distancing, etc. The recent consensus is that lockdowns don’t work and are extremely damaging to the economy, lead to social unrest, etc.

[Commando]

Those blaming Trump for Covid (I hear “Trump has killed 170,000 people!”) have two big hurdles to clear. First, would a federal response have been legal? What is the constitutional basis? The all-purpose Interstate Commerce Clause? Maybe, but here’s NPR’s legal correspondent in April saying a federal response probably is not legally possible (of course he wrote this when Trump was threatening federal action). https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02/82529...ne-experts-say

Indeed, I think Trump gave the states what they wanted. They have made it clear they want no federal intervention in Covid, riots, etc. Especially true of Blue states.

Second, it’s easy to talk about a coordinated federal response, but what should have been done that wasn’t at the state and federal level? In fact, we’ve learned that Covid is most effectively addressed at the local if not the individual level. Masks, social distancing, etc. The recent consensus is that lockdowns don’t work and are extremely damaging to the economy, lead to social unrest, etc.

You do understand the effect that politicized and mixed messaging about a pandemic has had, don't you? Even absent a federally coordinated response, clear, focused leadership and direction are desirable things, are they not? Didn't we have states bidding against the federal government for ventilators at one point? Give me a fucking break.

[myboynoah]

COVID and the response to COVID has been so politicized from the beginning there is absolutely nothing Trump could've done that would've resulted in anyone saying he did a good job with it. Those of you who think otherwise are lying to yourselves.

I mean - Trump tries to shut down international travel from hot spot areas, and he gets jumped on as a xenophobe. You really think other actions he would've taken would've been met with applause and happiness from the Dems?

Yeah - Trump has been a disaster. He can't keep the message straight on whether to wear masks or not, how serious the virus is or isn't, or what medications people should or shouldn't take. I completely agree with that.

I also tend to believe that shutting down and opening up stuff is probably better done on a state/county basis than a country basis. So in many ways, I'm happy that Trump left it to states to make those decisions. I also acknowledge that his Health and Human Services people could've/should've (assuming they haven't been) been bringing together the state HHS people together for at least weekly phone conferences sharing what they've learned and what is versus isn't working. We are still UNITED states, we can help and learn from each other.

But to say that both the economy and the COVID would be SO much better off if Trump had responded early (when the Dems were reacting horrifically to what little he did do) shows a lack of understanding of just how politicized this is and just how much the Dems hate Trump and would be unwilling to support anything of the sort.

Friend, we can't ignore the outcome of djt's disjointed policy approach and messaging denying the seriousness of the threat. No doubt there was going to be an impact, as with any other natural disaster. But those impacts could have been mitigated with proper preparation and response. We simply need only look at how other countries responded and now reap the benefits of those effective responses.

Today the CDC is messaging decreased testing (at the White House's request) and the djt admin still can't even put forward and demonstrate a consistent mask policy. This is absurd.

[Commando]

I mean - Trump tries to shut down international travel from hot spot areas, and he gets jumped on as a xenophobe. You really think other actions he would've taken would've been met with applause and happiness from the Dems?

lol. No- that was travel from certain Muslim countries because of fear mongering back in 2017. I don't really remember anybody having a word to say about incoming travel from China being restricted. Why? Because there was a clear reason that was in the national interest.

[Commando]

Friend, we can't ignore the outcome of djt's disjointed policy approach and messaging denying the seriousness of the threat. No doubt there was going to be an impact, as with any other natural disaster. But those impacts could have been mitigated with proper preparation and response. We simply need only look at how other countries responded and now reap the benefits of those effective responses.

Today the CDC is messaging decreased testing (at the White House's request) and the djt admin still can't even put forward and demonstrate a consistent mask policy. This is absurd.

How terrible is it that we have to install a completely brand new government before we make any headway on the problem we've had since February just because we have an illiterate anti-science moron in charge with no attention span? Does Trump truly not believe in the prevailing science? Does he like national unrest? Does he see that as something to campaign on? I just don't get it.

[SeattleUte]

You do understand the effect that politicized and mixed messaging about a pandemic has had, don't you? Even absent a federally coordinated response, clear, focused leadership and direction are desirable things, are they not? Didn't we have states bidding against the federal government for ventilators at one point? Give me a fucking break.

There was never a shortage of ventilators. Mixed messaging is the fault of everyone. Masks don’t work. Masks are mandatory. Lockdowns lockdowns lockdowns! Not to mention the teachers unions, abetted by democrats, trying to leverage Covid for more pay and etc..

You’re a lawyer, right? Do you really think you could prove that “mixed messaging” by Trump caused anyone to die from Covid? What about 170,000?

[Commando]

BTW, can they just get someone to read Biden's speech for him? He is painful to listen to.

How do you think this criticism reads coming from an ardent Trump defender?

[Commando]

There was never a shortage of ventilators. Mixed messaging is the fault of everyone. Masks don’t work. Masks are mandatory. Lockdowns lockdowns lockdowns! Not to mention the teachers unions, abetted by democrats, trying to leverage Covid for more pay and etc. for teacher.

You’re a lawyer, right? Do you really think you could prove that “minxes messaging” by Trump caused anyone to die from Covid? What about 170,000?

You're asking me to prove something wildly out of my wheelhouse via extrapolation. Whether we ended up needing those ventilators isn't relevant. I'm talking about the dog-shit quality leadership we've been treated to in response to a major, major international crisis. Is that really controversial?

[SeattleUte]

Friend, we can't ignore the outcome of djt's disjointed policy approach and messaging denying the seriousness of the threat. No doubt there was going to be an impact, as with any other natural disaster. But those impacts could have been mitigated with proper preparation and response. We simply need only look at how other countries responded and now reap the benefits of those effective responses.

Today the CDC is messaging decreased testing (at the White House's request) and the djt admin still can't even put forward and demonstrate a consistent mask policy. This is absurd.

These kinds of generalizations are just gobbldeygook. Wheat specifically should have been done that wasn’t? Historians have written books on how the government could have prevented Pearl Harbor with a lot of specificas. Can you give us something like that?

[Uncle Ted]

Those blaming Trump for Covid (I hear “Trump has killed 170,000 people!”) have two big hurdles to clear. First, would a federal response have been legal? What is the constitutional basis? The all-purpose Interstate Commerce Clause? Maybe, but here’s NPR’s legal correspondent in April saying a federal response probably is not legally possible (of course he wrote this when Trump was threatening federal action). https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02/82529...ne-experts-say

Indeed, I think Trump gave the states what they wanted. They have made it clear they want no federal intervention in Covid, riots, etc. Especially true of Blue states.

Second, it’s easy to talk about a coordinated federal response, but what should have been done that wasn’t at the state and federal level? In fact, we’ve learned that Covid is most effectively addressed at the local if not the individual level. Masks, social distancing, etc. The recent consensus is that lockdowns don’t work and are extremely damaging to the economy, lead to social unrest, etc.

Drumpf should have had the federal government respond more like they are doing in Bernie Sanders favorite country, Venezuela:

Covid Victims Are Forced Into Filthy Warehouses in Venezuela

Juan, a 53-year-old Caracas taxi driver, tested positive last month for Covid-19. His doctor wanted to spare him mandatory quarantine -- the shelters are mostly hellholes -- so she sent him home. Government agents learned where he was and moved him to a center in a western slum. “I spent three days sleeping on an aluminum chair,” he recalled, asking that his family name not be published to avoid trouble. “They fed us cold rice, lentils and arepas. The place was controlled by armed militias and Cuban doctors.” He was moved to a stadium in the city’s south, where he’s been for two weeks.
[...]

https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb...s-in-venezuela

The socialists would do a much better job running this country. They know how to handle a crisis such as this.

[Jarid in Cedar]

The only thing Trump loves 10% as much as himself is the Dow Jones. Understand that, and you get insight into his initial response to COVID-19

[SeattleUte]

You're asking me to prove something wildly out of my wheelhouse via extrapolation. I'm talking about the dog-shit quality leadership we've been treated to in response to a major, major international crisis. Is that really controversial?

You’re just spouting generalizations that are worthless to anyone, and emoting to boot. This isn’t helpful.

Here are some facts. New York/New Jersey, run by democrats, have by far the worst deaths per million, and will end up that way. The entire US is better than most of Northern Europe.