Underage Drinking

[I.J. Reilly]

Cultural differences are the main cause of the differences in drinking habits. I can't speak for France, but if it's anything like Italy (and I suspect it is) then getting drunk in front of anyone, much less strangers in a bar is very embarrassing and is something to be avoided. Italians are scandalized by the American students who come and drink so much and then try to make it back to their apartments. It's no wonder they think that most Americans have the decorum of a sailor who's been at sea too long.

Italians frequent bars and drink hard liquor much less than Americans and Northern Europeans do. A bar in Italy is more like what we'd call a cafe than a bar. You can buy alcohol but an espresso is the most common beverage sold there and they don't keep late night hours. In general I find Italian and southern European attitudes towards alcohol very reasonable and they are very moderate in consumption at all ages.

What could be done to encourage a shift in culture in this way? Is U.S. culture flexible enough for this to be possible?

[Solon]

All this is is an attempt by University Presidents to prevent the universities from being held liable for deaths of underaged students as a result of binge drinking.

I think this is obviously it, Il Pad.

I've heard (but can't prove) that Penn State (Party School #1) has been targeted in several lawsuits for its undergraduate drinking culture.

PS - We're #1!!!

[wuapinmon]

It's no wonder they think that most Americans have the decorum of a sailor who's been at sea too long.

This is a very well-written sentence. One of your best.

[pellegrino]

What could be done to encourage a shift in culture in this way? Is U.S. culture flexible enough for this to be possible?

I don't know that anything can be done. We are a nation based on Northern European culture and that goes back to Beowulf and the long winter nights with nothing to do but sit in the mead hall and drink. I hate to say it but it's almost as though it were genetic.

Italians are equally disgusted with Brits who after work go sit in a pub and drink the night away. It's just a matter of culture and I don't know that much can be done to change that, mainly because people don't want to change it. They seem to like getting plowed.

[Indy Coug]

Our society is one where our culture and media have repeatedly made the case that boozing it up is the pinnacle of recreational activity for those that at least initially have their clothes on.

[Solon]

Our society is one where our culture and media have repeatedly made the case that boozing it up is the pinnacle of recreational activity for those that at least initially have their clothes on.

Is there a less appropriate group to be critiquing alcohol culture than a bunch of teetotaling Mormons, many of whom were raised to consider alcohol consumption a sin, like lying, stealing, or cheating?

I don't think anyone advocates for alcoholism, alcohol abuse, or driving under the influence, or other problems of alcohol, but every culture I know of throughout history has used alcohol. Teetotaling is the worldwide exception.

[Indy Coug]

Is there a less appropriate group to be critiquing alcohol culture than a bunch of teetotaling Mormons, many of whom were raised to consider alcohol consumption a sin, like lying, stealing, or cheating?

I don't think anyone advocates for alcoholism, alcohol abuse, or driving under the influence, or other problems of alcohol, but every culture I know of throughout history has used alcohol. Teetotaling is the worldwide exception.

I think I have enough close experience to offer an opinion that isn't "tainted" by my membership in the LDS church.

I'm not talking about teetotaling, I'm talking about a concerted effort to make alcohol consumption an indispensible part of social life and even to take it as far as to show that excessive consumption is both acceptable and desireable in some instances.

Having been raised in LDS-free communities before college, I've seen many tragic consequences of alcohol, including contributing factors to the deaths of two of my best friends while they were in HS. I've also witnessed many sad stories first hand as a missionary, home teacher, etc. of families ruined by alcohol.

[Solon]

I think I have enough close experience to offer an opinion that isn't "tainted" by my membership in the LDS church.

I'm not talking about teetotaling, I'm talking about a concerted effort to make alcohol consumption an indispensible part of social life and even to take it as far as to show that excessive consumption is both acceptable and desireable in some instances.

Having been raised in LDS-free communities before college, I've seen many tragic consequences of alcohol, including contributing factors to the deaths of two of my best friends while they were in HS. I've also witnessed many sad stories first hand as a missionary, home teacher, etc. of families ruined by alcohol.

And I'm saying there's no "concerted effort" - it's already an indispensible part of social life, for better or for worse. There are plenty of drawbacks and excesses, I'll readily agree, but there's nothing intrinsically "wrong" with alcohol (in my opinion).

[Hallelujah]

All this is is an attempt by University Presidents to prevent the universities from being held liable for deaths of underaged students as a result of binge drinking.

Exactly. Who in their right mind think that more 18-21 year olds drinking will solve anything?

[Hallelujah]

I think I have enough close experience to offer an opinion that isn't "tainted" by my membership in the LDS church.

I'm not talking about teetotaling, I'm talking about a concerted effort to make alcohol consumption an indispensible part of social life and even to take it as far as to show that excessive consumption is both acceptable and desireable in some instances.

Having been raised in LDS-free communities before college, I've seen many tragic consequences of alcohol, including contributing factors to the deaths of two of my best friends while they were in HS. I've also witnessed many sad stories first hand as a missionary, home teacher, etc. of families ruined by alcohol.

At least the beer and liquor corporations are doing their part. They sell it and then remind people to drink responsibly. I think that is all that needs to be done.

[Indy Coug]

At least the beer and liquor corporations are doing their part. They sell it and then remind people to drink responsibly. I think that is all that needs to be done.

Amazing what a little forced legislation will do.

[I.J. Reilly]

Exactly. Who in their right mind think that more 18-21 year olds drinking will solve anything?

What if you had more 18-21 year-olds drinking, but they were drinking less? Would that be worse or better than the situation that we have now?

[UtahDan]

And I'm saying there's no "concerted effort" - it's already an indispensible part of social life, for better or for worse. There are plenty of drawbacks and excesses, I'll readily agree, but there's nothing intrinsically "wrong" with alcohol (in my opinion).

Drinking has been a more or less inextricable part of every society for, what, thousands of years? That is not going to change. But the binge drinking that occurs on campuses is something else entirely and is, we all agree, a very bad thing. That behavior doesn't happen at all times and places and cultures. I don't know why it seems to happen in ours, but if lowering the drinking age reduced the incidence of it (which is what the University presidents argue in part, no?) I would be for it.

[Solon]

The increased revenue from alcohol sales to all students at football games and other events probably isn't a turnoff for these schools, I would imagine.

I'm pretty sure you can't buy alcohol on campuses, (right?). Although I'll say you could buy pretty much any kind of cocktail you could imagine at the Sugar Bowl (not played on a college campus).

At Penn State, it's illegal to drink in the parking-lots and/or tailgating areas during the game. just before and after. And nobody's supposed to be drinking inside the stadium.

[il Padrino Ute]

I'm pretty sure you can't buy alcohol on campuses, (right?). Although I'll say you could buy pretty much any kind of cocktail you could imagine at the Sugar Bowl (not played on a college campus).

At Penn State, it's illegal to drink in the parking-lots and/or tailgating areas during the game. just before and after. And nobody's supposed to be drinking inside the stadium.

You are correct. The NCAA disallows alcohol to be sold in facilities located on a campus.