Violence by White Supremicists on the rise

[Commando]

lol yeah and Trump never heard of David Duke before, either.

[imanihonjin]

Dennis Prager: Trump never said anything about very fine people being among the neo-nazis! What he conveniently ignores is the fact that it was a coalition of neo-nazi and KKK groups that organized the protest. They adopted the slogan "unite the right" to make it sound less sleazy. By the time Trump made the comment, everyone knew there were neo-nazis and KKK there and that one of them had just killed someone by driving a car into a crowd of counter-protesters, after several days of protests. To twist this to make it seem like Trump knew he was talking about just some regular folks politely complaining about taking down a statue, but not anyone from those hate groups, is beyond ludicrous. It really stretches reality to assume a normal, peaceful, non-racist person would have felt comfortable sticking around for long among all the racists who were there yelling their angry racist epithets and slogans.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...mp_140950.html

Out of curiosity, how do you explain away the statement he made directly after the very fine people comments, which was as follows:

""So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."

Seems to me he contemporaneously clarified the statement to not include neo-Nazis and white nationalists.

[BlueK]

Out of curiosity, how do you explain away the statement he made directly after the very fine people comments, which was as follows:

""So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."

Seems to me he contemporaneously clarified the statement to not include neo-Nazis and white nationalists.

Still stupid comment given that it's not really who was there to begin with. It's not in dispute by anyone that it was an event organized by neo-nazi and KKK groups. And after several days and when the violence happened, it stretches logic to think any normal non-racist people would have still been left standing there next to folks screaming "blood and soil!"

It sounds to me more like Trump trying his best to correct something he realized was too extreme, so he tried to pull it back the best he could. He does that sometimes. Also, he said this the day after his scripted speech, which apparently he wasn't happy about or he would have left it at that.

It's lame to blame the media for the back and forth and contradictions of Trump's own words.

All this after someone died by being intentionally run over by a car.

[beefytee]

I wouldn't be surprised if some PAC made a commercial juxtaposing clips of Trump talking about "invading" immigrants with the El Paso shooter's manifesto.

I have a feeling that this Presidential campaign is going to be uglier than anything we've seen in the past.

[imanihonjin]

Still stupid comment given that it's not really who was there to begin with. It's not in dispute by anyone that it was an event organized by neo-nazi and KKK groups. And after several days and when the violence happened, it stretches logic to think any normal non-racist people would have still been left standing there next to folks screaming "blood and soil!"

It sounds to me more like Trump trying his best to correct something he realized was too extreme, so he tried to pull it back the best he could. He does that sometimes. Also, he said this the day after his scripted speech, which apparently he wasn't happy about or he would have left it at that.

It's lame to blame the media for the back and forth and contradictions of Trump's own words.

All this after someone died by being intentionally run over by a car.

But the idea that he was talking about people other than neo-nazis and white supremacists was a point he was making even before he make the "fine people" comment. For instance he said:

"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee."

So this idea was promoted both before and after the "fine people" comment.

[Clark Addison]

I wouldn't be surprised if some PAC made a commercial juxtaposing clips of Trump talking about "invading" immigrants with the El Paso shooter's manifesto.

I have a feeling that this Presidential campaign is going to be uglier than anything we've seen in the past.

Agree that it sounds like something PAC would do.

[wapiti]

Still stupid comment given that it's not really who was there to begin with. It's not in dispute by anyone that it was an event organized by neo-nazi and KKK groups. And after several days and when the violence happened, it stretches logic to think any normal non-racist people would have still been left standing there next to folks screaming "blood and soil!"

It sounds to me more like Trump trying his best to correct something he realized was too extreme, so he tried to pull it back the best he could. He does that sometimes. Also, he said this the day after his scripted speech, which apparently he wasn't happy about or he would have left it at that.

It's lame to blame the media for the back and forth and contradictions of Trump's own words.

All this after someone died by being intentionally run over by a car.

Trump was off-script in a combative press conference. He went out of his way to condemn the nazi's and white nationalists. Its truly sad the way his "fine people" comment has been twisted by the media.

Also, Prager's point isn't simply that the press is lying, its that with the obvious lie the media is causing more division than anything Trump actually said. It makes the left more infuriated at Trump, it makes the right mad at the media, and it emboldens the nazis and white nationalists who think Trump is tacitly on their side.

[BlueK]

Trump was off-script in a combative press conference. He went out of his way to condemn the nazi's and white nationalists. Its truly sad the way his "fine people" comment has been twisted by the media.

Also, Prager's point isn't simply that the press is lying, its that with the obvious lie the media is causing more division than anything Trump actually said. It makes the left more infuriated at Trump, it makes the right mad at the media, and it emboldens the nazis and white nationalists who think Trump is tacitly on their side.

Why would the neo-nazis and white nationalists think Trump is on their side, if not for what they hear him say and tweet? It's mostly the media's fault for turning on the camera and microphone. I can go with you as far as to admit Trump often says stupid things that maybe he doesn't always think through. In the context of someone being murdered at that event, it was a dumb thing for him to talk about all the great people he thinks who were there protesting next to the ones who were obviously not fine people. They really weren't part of the story, and it still stretches logic to think nice people would have hung around on that side of the line very long once the nazi slogans kicked in.

In any event, it was a tragedy and he should have stuck with saying that and condemning racism and violence - full stop. Why the need to seemingly make the side the neo nazis were arguing on seem less bad by trying to say there were also some great people with them? Again, I don't think we've seen evidence that such people were actually there, and to me at least it defies logic that they would have been there for any longer than a few minutes if they were like most people and going to be turned off by nazi slogans.

[imanihonjin]

Why would the neo-nazis and white nationalists think Trump is on their side, if not for what they hear him say and tweet? It's mostly the media's fault for turning on the camera and microphone. I can go with you as far as to admit Trump often says stupid things that maybe he doesn't always think through. In the context of someone being murdered at that event, it was a dumb thing for him to talk about all the great people he thinks who were there protesting next to the ones who were obviously not fine people. They really weren't part of the story, and it still stretches logic to think nice people would have hung around on that side of the line very long once the nazi slogans kicked in.

You keep saying this as if it is determinative of what Trump actually meant with his comments about nice people. From clarifying comments he made directly after he said the "nice people" line and from comments he said before the "nice people" line, he seems clear that he isn't talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists when he says "nice people."

Yet, even though he clarified what he meant contemporaneously, it appears you continue to assert that he meant something else because you are convinced that he knew there were only neo-nazi and white supremacist protesters present and that he could, therefore, only have meant to attribute his "nice people" comment to neo-nazi's and white supremacists even though he made it clear that he was not referring to them. Do I have that right?

[BlueK]

Yet, even though he clarified what he meant contemporaneously, it appears you continue to assert that he meant something else because you are convinced that he knew there were only neo-nazi and white supremacist protesters present and that he could, therefore, only have meant to attribute his "nice people" comment to neo-nazi's and white supremacists even though he made it clear that he was not referring to them. Do I have that right?

It does stretch logic to think nice people would have hung around for the angry nazi salutes or slogans, which were in full swing by the time the tragic murder happened. That doesn't fit my definition of what "nice people" would do (the hanging around there after it got ugly). Maybe we just have to disagree on that, but I hope not.

However, that's not the same thing as saying I know for a fact Trump was talking about nazis when he said "fine people." I realize Trump maybe doesn't always think through or know what he's saying. I said that also.

But it also doesn't make it not a horrendously stupid thing to say in light of someone having been murdered by one of the not nice people who we know were there. The nice people weren't part of the story. No reason to bring them up other than try to deflect from what the main story was. Either that, or he's a nearly senile old man who sometimes doesn't know what he's saying. I guess that's a possibility also.

[frank ryan]

But the idea that he was talking about people other than neo-nazis and white supremacists was a point he was making even before he make the "fine people" comment. For instance he said:

"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee."

So this idea was promoted both before and after the "fine people" comment.

It was a fascist-White nationalist event. Nothing else. Those weren’t good people.
Also, confederate statues are dumb. We don’t have any statues honoring loyalists from the revolution.

[wapiti]

No, you do not have that right.

I'm questioning his need to talk about all the nice people who were supposedly there in light of the tragedy that happened. They weren't part of the story. Why keep talking about them unless there is a need to deflect from what happened and take some heat off the bad people who were there? Other than that, I have no idea what he was saying. Maybe he doesn't fully know. But I think it's dumb to blame the media for not understanding or for those who heard his actual words not liking how he handled it.

It was a long, combative press conference. Trump was off-script. And besides, he said nothing wrong.

It was about more than just what happened with the protest that turned violent. There was a greater debate going on at the time about whether monuments to confederates should exist at all.

[frank ryan]

Trump was off-script in a combative press conference. He went out of his way to condemn the nazi's and white nationalists. Its truly sad the way his "fine people" comment has been twisted by the media.

Also, Prager's point isn't simply that the press is lying, its that with the obvious lie the media is causing more division than anything Trump actually said. It makes the left more infuriated at Trump, it makes the right mad at the media, and it emboldens the nazis and white nationalists who think Trump is tacitly on their side.

Poor Trump. Always the victim. Actually the media has a good track record of getting things right with Trump. That’s why Trump hates them, because they don’t act like Fox or North Korean state media.

Prager is wrong, and has shown his true colors as a Godzilla size snowflake. Everything from him and others like him operate from an entrenched victimstance. It’s sad you buy his “fine people,” comment. If you think some of the unite the right marchers were fine people you’re morally warped.

[frank ryan]

It was a long, combative press conference. Trump was off-script. And besides, he said nothing wrong.

It was about more than just what happened with the protest that turned violent. There was a greater debate going on at the time about whether monuments to confederates should exist at all.

So Trump was bullied and wimpy Trump was forced to misspeak by the mean media. The removal of the statue served as an excuse. The march was about a lot more than that. Groups had gotten together and discussed planning violence. I have loads of confederate ancestors but have zero desire to worship moments or obsess over the southern perspective of the civil war. A significant amount of confederate monuments were added during desegregation.

[BlueK]

It was a long, combative press conference. Trump was off-script. And besides, he said nothing wrong.

It was about more than just what happened with the protest that turned violent. There was a greater debate going on at the time about whether monuments to confederates should exist at all.

Is it possible he went back off script because he didn't really agree with the scripted comments that probably someone else wrote for him? Because the things he said after the scripted speech tend to match the things he was saying the days before he gave the scripted speech. It's the scripted comments that stood out as different.