Utah Senator Mitt Romney Thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

Educate us, how is Joe Biden dirty as hell? I'm curious to hear how he's so distinctly corrupt and craven.

Come on, frank. There is only one reason they were paying Hunter $50K/mo for that job. That is sleazy as hell.

[frank ryan]

Uncle Ted will be right along to do that.

Yeah, that's a load of horse shit. I'm not interested in the memes and bullshit Ted repeats from Twitter, I want to know what informed your strong opinion. If the Joe Biden is as dirty as you, shouldn't be difficult to make the case he is exceptionally corrupt.

[frank ryan]

Come on, frank. There is only one reason they were paying Hunter $50K/mo for that job. That is sleazy as hell.

Let's not act family members of politicians and famous people don't get placed board of random companies in similar situations. That's the norm. It's a sleazy practice, but it's not out of the ordinary.

Surely you don't cosign on falefal's statement about the Bidens being "dirty as hell"?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Let's not act family members of politicians and famous people don't get placed board of random companies in similar situations. That's the norm. It's a sleazy practice, but it's not out of the ordinary.

Surely you don't cosign on falefal's statement about the Bidens being "dirty as hell"?

Everybody does it so it is ok? I disagree on both counts.

Falafel is right.

[SeattleUte]

First, the good news: Romney will not vote for Sanders.

As to how history will view Romney's vote, I'd bet otherwise. Among other reasons, look at your string of adjectives and compare Romney's behavior with Trump's over the past several years--by comparison, Romney looks very good. If Trump looks better than Romney 30 years from now, I'll grieve (admittedly from the next dimension) about what happened to the nation.

There are three basic positions one can have with respect to Trump's impeachment: (i) he did nothing wrong, (ii) what he did was wrong, but he shouldn't be removed from office, and (iii) what he did was wrong, and he should be removed. I think reasonable minds can differ between positions (ii) and (iii), and the dialogue between those two positions can/should be rational and even high-minded. Those ripping on Romney are nearly all in the first camp, however, and in my view deserve little respect as I believe history will prove that that position was demonstrably false.

You’re correct that (ii) and (iii) are debatable. I’m certainly not in the (i) camp. And as I heard my wife say to my son today (we were talking about Christianity), you’re smart enough to see shades of gray. This spectacle was gray enough and political enough that it did not merit “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine." Dershowitz is right that two things can be true at once—it helps benefits the president politically and it’s in the national interest. Romney himself summed up well Joe Biden’s conflict of interest, his son’s sleazy profiteering from his father’s name and the rife corruption in Ukraine. I don’t know how he got to “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine" (never mind that it’s certainly possible to imagine much worse).

What this all comes down to is politics. Romney is not morally superior to the other 52 Republican senators or the more than 50 percent of Americans that opposed impeachment, or, since he was the only one who crosssed party lines, the entire Congress, as he’d like us to believe. But for his personal ax to grind, he’d have erred on the side of politics.

My point is, I’d be more patient with Romney’s self-indulgent moral superiority complex if Bernie Sanders weren’t the favorite to win the democratic nomination. There are more important things going on than his little self-righteous speech.

[myboynoah]

You’re correct that (ii) and (iii) are debatable. I’m certainly not in the (i) camp. And as I heard my wife say to my son today (we were talking about Christianity), you’re smart enough to see shades of gray. This spectacle was gray enough and political enough that it did not merit “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine." Dershowitz is right that two things can be true at once—it helps benefits the president politically and it’s in the national interest. Romney himself summed up well Joe Biden’s conflict of interest, his son’s sleazy profiteering from his father’s name and the rife corruption in Ukraine. I don’t know how he got to “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine" (never mind that it’s certainly possible to imagine much worse).

What this all comes down to is politics. Romney is not morally superior to the other 52 Republican senators or the more than 50 percent of Americans that opposed impeachment, or, since he was the only one who crosssed party lines, the entire Congress, as he’d like us to believe. But for his personal ax to grind, he’d have erred on the side of politics.

My point is, I’d be more patient with Romney’s self-indulgent moral superiority complex if Bernie Sanders weren’t the favorite to win the democratic nomination. There are more important things going on than his little self-righteous speech.

Or you could just take him at his word and not get so upset by it all.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You’re correct that (ii) and (iii) are debatable. I’m certainly not in the (i) camp. And as I heard my wife say to my son today (we were talking about Christianity), you’re smart enough to see shades of gray. This spectacle was gray enough and political enough that it did not merit “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine." Dershowitz is right that two things can be true at once—it helps benefits the president politically and it’s in the national interest. Romney himself summed up well Joe Biden’s conflict of interest, his son’s sleazy profiteering from his father’s name and the rife corruption in Ukraine. I don’t know how he got to “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine" (never mind that it’s certainly possible to imagine much worse).

What this all comes down to is politics. Romney is not morally superior to the other 52 Republican senators or the more than 50 percent of Americans that opposed impeachment, or, since he was the only one who crosssed party lines, the entire Congress, as he’d like us to believe. But for his personal ax to grind, he’d have erred on the side of politics.

My point is, I’d be more patient with Romney’s self-indulgent moral superiority complex if Bernie Sanders weren’t the favorite to win the democratic nomination. There are more important things going on than his little self-righteous speech.

This fact right here is clouding your judgment.

As for Dershowitz's argument, if we were to accept that rationalization, then god help us in the future. Do whatever the hell you want as a president as long as you can conjure some "in the nation's interest" argument.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Charles Sykes:

Mitt Romney will have to wait for the verdict of history and he may not be around long enough to read its final judgment.

In the meantime, how well prepared is he for the Trumpian onslaught that is now headed his way? “Not very well prepared,” he told the Washington Post. “I have tried to keep myself from really thinking about that so that I didn’t lose my resolve.”

He recalled a hymn he has sung in church that he said says to do the right thing and let the consequences follow. “I’m only dealing with the first part. . . . And I know there will be consequences.”

But the consequences will not all be negative. To Trump’s followers, Romney’s isolation will be taken as proof of his irrelevance. But to other citizens his lonely stand is a reminder of Frederick Douglass’s remark that “One and God make a majority.”

By standing alone on the Senate floor, Romney reminded us that the embers of principle and political courage are not, after all, wholly extinct.

And that’s not nothing.

https://thebulwark.com/romney-one-man-alone/

[Jeff Lebowski]

Steven Colbert with a fantastic tribute to Mitt's integrity.

[myboynoah]

Steven Colbert with a fantastic tribute to Mitt's integrity.

Simply awesome.

[myboynoah]

Embedded Tweet

[Bo Diddley]

Call him as an apostle and watch the sifting begin.

[frank ryan]

Everybody does it so it is ok? I disagree on both counts.

Falafel is right.

That's a weak retort Jeff.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's a weak retort Jeff.

Ok.

[tooblue]

You’re correct that (ii) and (iii) are debatable. I’m certainly not in the (i) camp. And as I heard my wife say to my son today (we were talking about Christianity), you’re smart enough to see shades of gray. This spectacle was gray enough and political enough that it did not merit “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine." Dershowitz is right that two things can be true at once—it helps benefits the president politically and it’s in the national interest. Romney himself summed up well Joe Biden’s conflict of interest, his son’s sleazy profiteering from his father’s name and the rife corruption in Ukraine. I don’t know how he got to “the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine" (never mind that it’s certainly possible to imagine much worse).

What this all comes down to is politics. Romney is not morally superior to the other 52 Republican senators or the more than 50 percent of Americans that opposed impeachment, or, since he was the only one who crosssed party lines, the entire Congress, as he’d like us to believe. But for his personal ax to grind, he’d have erred on the side of politics.

My point is, I’d be more patient with Romney’s self-indulgent moral superiority complex if Bernie Sanders weren’t the favorite to win the democratic nomination. There are more important things going on than his little self-righteous speech.

Your jealousy of Romney is (nearly) pathological.