Anthem Mania

[Topper]

Well, it beats dismissiveness I suppose.




It seems to me the point is to highlight a divide that many comfortable people do not see or even believe might exist. There is plenty of proof in this very thread that many intelligent, thoughtful, and good people just aren't seeing a divide worth protesting. Comfortable people don't spend their time and energy pondering things unimportant to them until such things are placed at the forefront of their thoughts for a significant time. The protests are beginning to accomplish that and considered in such a light I think they have been brilliant. It remains to be seen whether these protests will change hearts and minds as time passes. I'm hopeful they will.

Or harden them. That is more likely.

[frank ryan]

I think it is worth recognizing that Trump calling for a boycott of the NFL and firing those kneeling during the anthem because of political speech is pretty chilling, regardless of you how feel about the protest itself.

Trump continually finds new ways to show what a repugnant person he is.

[Topper]

I think it is worth recognizing that Trump calling for a boycott of the NFL and firing those kneeling during the anthem because of political speech is pretty chilling, regardless of you how feel about the protest itself.

Trump continually finds new ways to show what a repugnant person he is.

Their cause was dying until dumbshit fired them up. What an imbecile.

[falafel]

I think it is worth recognizing that Trump calling for a boycott of the NFL and firing those kneeling during the anthem because of political speech is pretty chilling, regardless of you how feel about the protest itself.

Trump continually finds new ways to show what a repugnant person he is.

I don't know, these are NFL players with the resources to hire excellent lawyers should anything stupid like that happen. I also don't see any of the owners just dumping players because they are kneeling during the anthem (and, in fact, many of them are participating right along with the players).

Wait, unless you meant chilling as in scary, not chilling as in chilling speech. I'm not sure I find it scary. Laughable is much closer to how I actually feel.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think it is worth recognizing that Trump calling for a boycott of the NFL and firing those kneeling during the anthem because of political speech is pretty chilling, regardless of you how feel about the protest itself.

Trump continually finds new ways to show what a repugnant person he is.

Ignore it. Just more dumb blathering by the Dufus-In-Chief. Nobody is going to get fired.

[Topper]

Laughable is much closer to how I actually feel.

Trump is actually a Democratic plant making anything he opposes supported by many others (pure genius frank ryan). So he is the protest's inspiration. Nobody will be fired for protesting. It might have happened before Trump, but not now.

[bluegoose]

Interesting thread. I've got to say I'm a little surprised at the responses of a few of you. Not what I would have expected.

My $.02(sorry for the essay format but I don't get to post very often during the work day):

Despite what the President and Fox News will tell you, this obviously isn't about the anthem. I think most of us here know that. And it's not about a lack of respect toward the veterans and active military personnel like some would have you believe. The anthem is simply a vehicle (and a very effective vehicle) to bring attention to the cause, which is, and always has been, the inequality in treatment of black people in America.

Not one NFL player has said (to my knowledge) anything negative or disparaging toward the anthem, the flag, the military personnel, or the ideals of the country. They love their country and have taken great care to say as much. They don't like the mistreatment they see everyday toward the black man in our country. And they don't like the President's statements and actions toward blacks and other minority groups in our country. It started as a protest against police brutality toward blacks, but it has extended to include a much broader definition of mistreatment and inequality.

Without Kaep and others taking a knee, this issue would have never gotten the attention that it has. In my opinion, it didn't help that he started out the protest by sitting. I can somewhat see how some people would feel like he was being disrespectful by sitting casually on the bench through the anthem at a public event. But people sit on their asses during the anthem all the time at public events. People stand with their hands to their sides or folded behind their backs all the time during the anthem. People stand and eat nachos and drink beer during the anthem all the time at sporting events. Are they any less of a patriot than the guy that stands with his hand over his heart? Maybe,maybe not. What about the guy watching the game and listening to the anthem while sitting on the couch at home? He's not standing with his hand over his heart. Disrespectful non-patriot?

But it got people's attention, which is the whole point of the protest. To bring an issue to light that they feel otherwise is not going to get the attention that they think it deserves.

The outrage is people getting upset because the player's brand of patriotism is different than what the vocal majority is telling them it should be. They're being told that, when in a public venue, you can't love America and you can't respect the country and the military unless you stand during the anthem, with hand placed on heart.

I'm really not sure how anyone sees taking a knee as showing disrespect to the anthem, the flag, or the military. Kneeling is almost always a sign of respect and deference. These guys are kneeling, showing respect to the ideals of America and the anthem, while making a statement about an issue that means a great deal to them.

Like Steelblue and others have said, if there weren't such a large divide in America then there would be no need for protest and we could all stand in a moment of solidarity. But there is a massive divide, and this seems like the only way that that divide is going to get the attention that it deserves.

MBN asked the question – to what end? I don't think anyone knows the answer to that question. It's not like this is an organized movement.It started out with one guy that has recently grown to include hundreds in the NFL, and now thousands across the country in high school venues. I don't think any of these guys had an end solution in mind when they first took a knee. They just wanted awareness and public discourse. And they got it. Time will tell if it goes anywhere. I'm skeptical, but hopeful.

And sorry, Topper, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on one of your last points. Their “cause”, as you put it, wasn't dying down. It was always there, but the scale hasn't been this large. And it wasn't what the president said on twitter this week that re-ignited it. The President's response to Charlottesville added the fuel to keep the fire going. The moronic twitterstorm this week,calling for every protester to be fired for kneeling, amped up the volume, as it should have. He's an idiot that has absolutely no idea of how to unite his country.

[Applejack]

:clap:

[SteelBlue]

That’s a beauty of a post, BG.

[Walter Sobchak]

[Jeff Lebowski]

Nice post, bluegoose. A couple thoughts:

I'm really not sure how anyone sees taking a knee as showing disrespect to the anthem, the flag, or the military. Kneeling is almost always a sign of respect and deference. These guys are kneeling, showing respect to the ideals of America and the anthem, while making a statement about an issue that means a great deal to them.

I find statements like this remarkable. You honestly don't see how people could misconstrue this as a sign of disrespect? Yes, you can explain all you want how it is really a sign of respect for the flag, anthom, etc. but if someone is in any way surprised that people take offense then there is tone-deafness and lack understanding on both sides.

FTR: I personally have zero problem with people taking a knee.

Like Steelblue and others have said, if there weren't such a large divide in America then there would be no need for protest and we could all stand in a moment of solidarity. But there is a massive divide, and this seems like the only way that that divide is going to get the attention that it deserves.

This puzzles me too. The only way to draw attention to and to heal a divide is to amplify the divide?

Furthermore, you seem to want to have it both ways. You can't understand why people wouldn't see this as a simple sign of respect, yet at the same time are arguing that it is a protest (you contrast it with a sign of solidarity) designed to get people's attention. If there was ever any question that people would find it disrespectful, that question was answered long ago. I think this gesture was chosen (and is growing) precisely because of the visceral reaction it is getting.

Call me crazy, but the polarization of American politics is precisely what put that idiot Trump in the White House.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am going to go way out on a limb here and predict that the anthem protest will not unite our divided country nor will it make any real impact on police shootings. I hope I am wrong.

I am a conscientious objector in the culture wars.

[Moliere]

I've spent some time reading up on this all today. I still think kneeling udring the anthem is a weird way to protest what they are protesting, but I get it has gotten a lot of attention so they are doing something right.

What is odd, is all the uber-conservative outrage. There is dumbness on both sides in this, but the uber-cons dumbness is off the charts. Their weird definition of is/isn't a patriot. Their threats to boycott the NFL (I thought boycotts were the pet tool of the libs...who knew?). Their insinuation that there is no real racial injustice. Their defense of Trump. How dumb are these people? It's almost as if they just need to be mad at everything liberal...or even if something hints at being liberal, they have to hate it. So they construe a message that the players' protest is a protest against the flag/military so they can get really mad because if the protest was against racial inequality the uber-cons wouldn't have a leg to stand on. So they invent a tangential narrative and run with it. It's so weird but frankly it's just how politics are today.

And I have to say, I was done with Trump a month into this term but the guy just gets worse and worse. He's an idiot. Please dems, in 2020, don't choose your candidate based on focus group feedback or on who gives the largest kickbacks and don't rig your primary process. This time, please just let the votes fall where they may...oh and get rid of the dumb super delegate idea. We need someone, anyone, that can at least try to unite us.

[Bo Diddley]

I take zero offense at players kneeling during the anthem. It makes me sad that they somehow feel disenfranchised by this great country. The condemnations that I read about online are repugnant to me. Until anyone can see into their heart and understand their intentions, they have no right to judge them.

[Shaka]

I Until anyone can see into their heart and understand their intentions, they have no right to judge them.

B. freaking S.

They decided to use a sacred cow to make an unrelated point. For many that particular sacred cow hinges on ancestors, both recent and not so recent, who fought and even died for their country. That's about as personal as it gets. Most of these people, of which I am one, realize that we still have things we need to fix in this country.