Social Media Outrage/Cancel Culture

[swampfrog]

Again, what you are describing is an American problem. The rest of the world does not assign the same exclusive meaning to the term:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tru...nada-1.5010033

As you state definitions are fluid and so the definition "that stuck" is in fact being unstuck as we speak. And that is where the irrationality starts; it starts with an unwillingness to see beyond the marxist theory of socialism because it is far too easy to codify and then denigrate someone as socialist, rather than make the effort to engage in dialogue and understand their perspective.

I'm in complete agreement here. I see this in other places also. This is why the importance of dialog is paramount. It works both ways, one just can't show up where the definition is known to be narrow, declare that they are a socialist, and expect the listener to grok them. That's irrationality on part of the speaker, not the listener.

[tooblue]

That's not how I read the wikipedia entry.



It's simply stating that whatever the word "Socialism" had meant previously, after the time of Marx, this is the definition that stuck. The definition of words is fluid over time and that obviously creates significant problems. The short video shows the same, socialism is widely believed to be the removal of markets and to replace them with some form of central planning.

I have the same problem with the word "Marriage" in Mormondom, we'd like it to mean something, but the wider world has adopted it for other purposes (including the assignment of citizenship rights). It causes people to talk past one another.

Again, what you are describing is an American problem. The rest of the world does not assign the same exclusive meaning to the term:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tru...nada-1.5010033

As you state definitions are fluid and so the definition "that stuck" is in fact being unstuck as we speak. And that is where the irrationality starts; it starts with an unwillingness to see beyond the marxist theory of socialism because it is far too easy to codify and then denigrate someone as socialist, rather than make the effort to engage in dialogue and understand their perspective.

[swampfrog]

"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society."

—Albert Einstein (dang pinko-commie)

Einstein is clearly advocating for the planned economy definition here. Which just shows the earlier wikipedia article to be true--in the time of Einstein--the word socialism is commonly agreed upon to describe a planned economy. That says nothing about whether his argument is valid of course. The counter arguments are well known.

[swampfrog]

That definition from wikipedia is based on Marxist theory, which is loaded, but hardly the only consideration. The larger issue is, Marx didn't come up with his theory in a vacuum. It was influenced.

People want to label Bernie a socialist, when really what they should be saying is he is a Marxist, because there is a distinct difference. We are all a bunch of damn socialists.

That's not how I read the wikipedia entry.

socialism had come to signify opposition to capitalism and advocacy for a post-capitalist system based on some form of social ownership of the means of production.

It's simply stating that whatever the word "Socialism" had meant previously, after the time of Marx, this is the definition that stuck. The definition of words is fluid over time and that obviously creates significant problems. The short video shows the same, socialism is widely believed to be the removal of markets and to replace them with some form of central planning.

I have the same problem with the word "Marriage" in Mormondom, we'd like it to mean something, but the wider world has adopted it for other purposes (including the assignment of citizenship rights). It causes people to talk past one another.

[frank ryan]

George Orwell was a socialist. I don't think anyone would call him a communist.

[tooblue]

"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society."

—Albert Einstein (dang pinko-commie)

[Pelado]

If you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.

So derisive.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Talk about a distortion lol ... where's all that precision, and clarity. We all obviously know what Lebowski means when he uses the terms socialism, so I guess it is OK, but then it is followed by playing the victim and claiming he and others are being mocked by mocking the argument?

Playing the victim? By saying I found the argument funny? Ha. Stop projecting.

[wuapinmon]

People want to label Bernie a socialist, when really what they should be saying is he is a Marxist, because there is a distinct difference. We are all a bunch of damn socialists.

If you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.

[tooblue]

Yes agreed. However from wikipedia:



We have to contend with the fact that the term is loaded and the meaning is not consistent across demographic categories or groups--or even across time. That produces the problem that declaring: is an ambiguous statement that requires unpacking. Which has now been done. To my reading that was all the original requests were, to disambiguate that statement.

That definition from wikipedia is based on Marxist theory, which is loaded, but hardly the only consideration. The larger issue is, Marx didn't come up with his theory in a vacuum. It was influenced.

People want to label Bernie a socialist, when really what they should be saying is he is a Marxist, because there is a distinct difference. We are all a bunch of damn socialists.

[tooblue]

This is funny. Distort the definition of socialism significantly beyond what it means today, google a few sources to make this weird argument seem legit, and then mock everyone for disliking socialism.

Btw, many of the founding fathers were also slave owners.

Talk about a distortion lol ... where's all that precision, and clarity. We all obviously know what Lebowski means when he uses the terms socialism, so I guess it is OK, but then it is followed by playing the victim and claiming he and others are being mocked by mocking the argument?

[Donuthole]

The bass riddim in "Stir It Up" is outrageously good!

[wuapinmon]

Btw, many of the founding fathers were also slave owners.

They also planted clues all over Philadelphia for Nicholas Cage to find.

[swampfrog]

This is funny. Distort the definition of socialism significantly beyond what it means today, google a few sources to make this weird argument seem legit, and then mock everyone for disliking socialism.

Btw, many of the founding fathers were also slave owners.

There are many people making these kinds of arguments. I've run into them quite often because of who my kids associate with online and some of my Twitter follows. It would do as all well to step back a bit and try to get at the actual ideas. If nothing else, the myriad of sources does show the word being used in ways inconsistent with current common vernacular. Many of us are less far apart than we think. The world is a confusing place.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is funny. Distort the definition of socialism significantly beyond what it means today, google a few sources to make this weird argument seem legit, and then mock everyone for disliking socialism.

Btw, many of the founding fathers were also slave owners.