Social Media Outrage/Cancel Culture

[Eddie]

Is this what happened? They started chanting after the chaperones told them to? I'm asking because I didn't watch any of the longer videos.

I did't watch all 2 hours either, so I can't say first hand. But in one of the many articles I read (I honestly don't remember which) they said something about one of the chaperones "approving" or "allowing" the kids to do their school sports chants.

Which, quite honestly, could've happened any one of a thousand ways.

Could one of the chaperones told them to do a school cheer? Sure.

Could one of the kids asked the chaperones if they could do a school cheer and the chaperone said "yes"? Sure.

Could one of the kids started yelling back at the Black Hebrew Israelis, and a chaperone intervened and said "Hey, why don't you guys do one of your school cheers and drown them out. There are more of you - you are louder than them..." Sure.

I could go on. I don't know how it started and it it was suggested by a chaperone or if a chaperone just said "go ahead".

But I believe doing a school cheer isn't necessarily a bad idea (not using hindsight) given the circumstances for the reasons I outlined earlier. That said - could the school cheer have escalated the other two groups who were now being drowned out by this large group of kids and saw it as a challenge to them getting their message across? Sure. That aside - I still find the two "adult" groups as being more in the wrong for either shouting racist remarks (Black Hebrews) or entering the kids' space and drumming in their faces (Phillips).

[swampfrog]

Is this what happened? They started chanting after the chaperones told them to? I'm asking because I didn't watch any of the longer videos.

The timeline is important for context. Taken from here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-story/581035/

The Black Hebrew Israelites were likely there to confront the participants of the indigenous people's march. There is video of them hurling insults at them for a prolonged amount of time. Possibly that was also coincidence, but given the nature of the insults they sound prepared.

“Before you started worshipping totem poles, you was worshipping the true and living God. Before you became an idol worshipper, you was worshipping the true and living God. This is the reason why this land was taken away from you! Because you worship everything except the most high. You worship every creation except the creator—and that’s what we are here to tell you to do.”

“You’re not supposed to worship eagles, buffalos, rams, all types of animals.”

The exchange got very heated between the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Native Americans. Some of the Covington kids were bystanders watching the back and forth.

The leader of the BHI identifies a common enemy in the MAGA hat wearers and redirects the conversation at them.

He tells her there won’t be any food stamps coming to reservations or the projects because of the shutdown, and then gesturing to his left, he says, “It’s because of these … bastards over there, wearing ‘Make America Great Again’ hats.”

The camera turns to capture five white teenage boys, one of whom is wearing a maga hat. They are standing at a respectful distance, with their hands in their pockets, listening to this exchange with expressions of curiosity. They are there to meet their bus home.

“Why you not angry at them?” the Black Hebrew Israelite asks the Native American woman angrily.
“That’s right,” says one of his coreligionists, “little corny-ass Billy Bob.”

The boys don’t respond to this provocation, although one of them smiles at being called a corny-ass Billy Bob. They seem interested in what is going on, in the way that it’s interesting to listen to Hyde Park speakers.

The Native woman isn’t interested in attacking the white boys. She keeps up her argument with the Black Hebrew Israelites, and her line of reasoning is so powerful that it throws the preacher off track.

“She trying to be distracting,” one of the men says. “She trying to stop the flow.”

“You’re out of order,” the preacher tells the woman. “Where’s your husband? Let me speak to him.”

Read the rest if you are interested in the further timeline.

The confrontation was not about the boys originally. They were bystanders, their group was slowly converging to be picked up, only a few of them were there when the BHI preacher singled them out. They continued to gather as they had spent the day dispersed to do some sight-seeing. Most of the chaperones would have been out with individual groups and things were escalating long before the majority arrived.

[Eddie]

The timeline is important for context. Taken from here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-story/581035/

The Black Hebrew Israelites were likely there to confront the participants of the indigenous people's march. There is video of them hurling insults at them for a prolonged amount of time. Possibly that was also coincidence, but given the nature of the insults they sound prepared.


The exchange got very heated between the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Native Americans. Some of the Covington kids were bystanders watching the back and forth.

The leader of the BHI identifies a common enemy in the MAGA hat wearers and redirects the conversation at them.



Read the rest if you are interested in the further timeline.

The confrontation was not about the boys originally. They were bystanders, their group was slowly converging to be picked up, only a few of them were there when the BHI preacher singled them out. They continued to gather as they had spent the day dispersed to do some sight-seeing. Most of the chaperones would have been out with individual groups and things were escalating long before the majority arrived.

Thanks for sharing that article.

I know I have my biases - but I think it is a good reflection of my view of what happened and where blame lies. All of the boys are by no means spotless. But they certainly do not bear the majority of the blame here either.

[myboynoah]

This thing was probably spontaneous. Do we know when and how it ended? Did some police get involved or did the adult chaperones step in?

I'm pretty sure it ended when the buses arrived to pick up the kids. It's the bus drivers' fault for not arriving earlier!

[Moliere]

I'm pretty sure it ended when the buses arrived to pick up the kids. It's the bus drivers' fault for not arriving earlier!

Probably also the fault of whoever built the Lincoln memorial. Also Lincoln’s fault for being so good so as to deserve a memorial. Also probably the founding fathers fault for starting this country.

[myboynoah]

Probably also the fault of whoever built the Lincoln memorial. Also Lincoln’s fault for being so good so as to deserve a memorial. Also probably the founding fathers fault for starting this country.

I think we can all agree that there is blame to go all around in this unfortunate incident.

[Northwestcoug]

The timeline is important for context. Taken from here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-story/581035/

The Black Hebrew Israelites were likely there to confront the participants of the indigenous people's march. There is video of them hurling insults at them for a prolonged amount of time. Possibly that was also coincidence, but given the nature of the insults they sound prepared.


The exchange got very heated between the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Native Americans. Some of the Covington kids were bystanders watching the back and forth.

The leader of the BHI identifies a common enemy in the MAGA hat wearers and redirects the conversation at them.



Read the rest if you are interested in the further timeline.

The confrontation was not about the boys originally. They were bystanders, their group was slowly converging to be picked up, only a few of them were there when the BHI preacher singled them out. They continued to gather as they had spent the day dispersed to do some sight-seeing. Most of the chaperones would have been out with individual groups and things were escalating long before the majority arrived.

That's interesting context. I might have been too harsh on chaperones before, if they were not present when the confrontation began.

[YOhio]

That's interesting context. I might have been too harsh on chaperones before, if they were not present when the confrontation began.

Well it does make them shitty chaperones.

[Commando]

Just learning more about the Black Hebrew Israelites, I have a hard time continuing to fault the maga kids the way I have been doing. Those guys are pieces of shit on par with the Westboro Baptist Church. Totally inciting and inflammatory in NYC, DC, and other areas. I do fault the adults for allowing the kids to parade around in those hats and not, as mentioned, not properly chaperoning them. They know exactly what's coming when you wear a Maga hat; it's not just a Trump hat, it's a "fuck you, we won, libtards" hat. Having your kids wear that on a trip to D.C.? Great move. Also, the quick clips made it seem like something was really happening when nothing really started or ended up happening, luckily.

[wapiti]

Just learning more about the Black Hebrew Israelites, I have a hard time continuing to fault the maga kids the way I have been doing. Those guys are pieces of shit on par with the Westboro Baptist Church. Totally inciting and inflammatory in NYC, DC, and other areas. I do fault the adults for allowing the kids to parade around in those hats and not, as mentioned, properly chaperoning them. They know exactly what's coming when you wear a Maga hat; it's not just a Trump hat, it's a "fuck you, we won, libtards" hat. Having your kids wear that on a trip to D.C.? Great move. Also, the quick clips made it seem like something was really happening when nothing really started or ended up happening.

So you think hats that say "Make America Great Again" should be censored? Or only be allowed to be worn by adults?

[Commando]

So you think hats that say "Make America Great Again" should be censored? Or only be allowed to be worn by adults?

I think you can't play dumb when things get out of control when you have a mosh pit of unsupervised teenagers wearing that dumb shit.

[myboynoah]

Well it does make them shitty chaperones.

Yep, pretty shitty, even after they showed up.

But the bus drivers as well; if they had only shown up earlier, those poor kids wouldn't have been threatened by that old guy playing a drum.

[Commando]

Yep, pretty shitty, even after they showed up.

But the bus drivers as well; if they had only shown up earlier, those poor kids wouldn't have been threatened by that old guy playing a drum.

I'm still laughing that anybody said they felt threatened by that guy... as they're jumping up and down, mocking his singing, doing the tomahawk chop at him...

[Eddie]

I'm still laughing that anybody said they felt threatened by that guy... as they're jumping up and down, mocking his singing, doing the tomahawk chop at him...

So - what do you think of "that guy" saying that he saw fear in their eyes and he learned as a marine that people kill what they fear? You laugh at anyone saying they felt threatened by that guy - do you also laugh at that guy for saying he felt threatened by the kids jumping up and down, laughing, etc?

You've reached a point that you're able to say you can't fault them as much as you have been - while doing your darnedest to make sure it's clear that they still are to blame for something. That whatever happened was caused by them. Maybe the Black Hebrews bear some blame, as they were openly trying to incite people - but you still seem to be giving "that guy" a free pass for walking into the middle of this group of kids and getting in their faces. He might not have been trying to start something. But walking right into the group of kids and banging a drum in their faces is about as dumb a thing as you can do if you aren't trying to start something.

All three of these groups were there as part of protests. There are bound to be things said back and forth. Whatever. I'm glad you're able to now say that maybe one of the adult groups that was actually shouting horrible things is more to blame than the kids who didn't. I guess we'll see if you ever reach the point of saying that some guy walking into their space and banging a drum in their faces probably isn't the best way to deescalate the situation.

I get the impression that these kids could've been at a soup kitchen feeding the homeless, but because they were wearing MAGA hats you'd find a way to describe them as attacking homeless vets somehow.

[swampfrog]

“Suppose one reads a story of filthy atrocities in the paper. Then suppose that something turns up suggesting that the story might not be quite true, or not quite so bad as it was made out. Is one's first feeling, 'Thank God, even they aren't quite so bad as that,' or is it a feeling of disappointment, and even a determination to cling to the first story for the sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies are as bad as possible? If it is the second then it is, I am afraid, the first step in a process which, if followed to the end, will make us into devils. You see, one is beginning to wish that black was a little blacker. If we give that wish its head, later on we shall wish to see grey as black, and then to see white itself as black. Finally we shall insist on seeing everything -- God and our friends and ourselves included -- as bad, and not be able to stop doing it: we shall be fixed for ever in a universe of pure hatred.”

― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity