President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[BlueK]

it's a national emergency according to Trump. But he's willing to let the government be closed for a year or longer to make the point that it's an emergency.

[frank ryan]

it's a national emergency according to Trump. But he's willing to let the government be closed for a year or longer to make the point that it's an emergency.

Illegal immigration has been on the steady decline for the last few years but someone it’s a national emergency and if you don’t support a costly “wall” you don’t want to keep the country safe? The GOP needs reorienting.

[Commando]

Yeah they believe it because the Oval Office's Most Prolific Liar Ever said it. What a bunch of political shills/ dipshits. I have no patience for willful ignorance.

[Jeff Lebowski]

it's a national emergency according to Trump. But he's willing to let the government be closed for a year or longer to make the point that it's an emergency.

Hey I can't stand Trump, but your logic makes no sense. If it truly were an emergency, taking a stand is a rational response.

Also, the government will not be closed for a year.

[BlueK]

Hey I can't stand Trump, but your logic makes no sense. If it truly were an emergency, taking a stand is a rational response.

Also, the government will not be closed for a year.

There is more than one way to make a stand. He's the one who suggested the timeframe of being willing to stand for at least a year or longer just to make the point that it's urgent. That's what makes no sense. If it's that urgent, stop acting like a spoiled child and see where there can be some common ground to make a deal. He just doesn't want to. He's too afraid of the Coulters and Rush Limbaughs saying bad things about him after he was about to make a deal. This is the presidency of the far right media. They're the ones calling the shots for him. Imagine if Obama had reacted this way solely based on what far left media said. Ridiculous.

[Jeff Lebowski]

There is more than one way to make a stand. He's the one who threw out the timeframe of being willing to stand for at least a year or longer just to make the point that it's urgent. That's what makes no sense. If it's that urgent stop acting like spoiled child and see where there can be some common ground. He just doesn't want to. He's too afraid of the Coulters and Rush Limbaughs saying bad things about him.

Still not making any sense.

If you are taking a stand and allowing the government to be shut down and you want to send a message that you won't budge, what should you say? "I will wait as long as it takes", or "I am only going to do this for a few days until the pressure gets too hot"?

[Uncle Ted]

There is more than one way to make a stand. He's the one who suggested the timeframe of being willing to stand for at least a year or longer just to make the point that it's urgent. That's what makes no sense. If it's that urgent, stop acting like a spoiled child and see where there can be some common ground to make a deal. He just doesn't want to. He's too afraid of the Coulters and Rush Limbaughs saying bad things about him after he was about to make a deal. This is the presidency of the far right media. They're the ones calling the shots for him. Imagine if Obama had reacted this way solely based on what far left media said. Ridiculous.

The Dems can end this mexican standoff... even Utah's McAdams says it is pretty easy:

McAdams also said he hopes Congress can find a compromise to end the partial government shutdown. President Trump and Democrats are at odds over funding for President Trump's proposed border wall. McAdams said he thinks Democrats will be willing to make a deal if everyone can agree to call it a "barrier" and not a "wall."

https://utahpolicy.com/index.php/fea...resident-trump

Build the wall barrier!

[wapiti]

There is more than one way to make a stand. He's the one who suggested the timeframe of being willing to stand for at least a year or longer just to make the point that it's urgent. That's what makes no sense. If it's that urgent, stop acting like a spoiled child and see where there can be some common ground to make a deal. He just doesn't want to. He's too afraid of the Coulters and Rush Limbaughs saying bad things about him after he was about to make a deal. This is the presidency of the far right media. They're the ones calling the shots for him. Imagine if Obama had reacted this way solely based on what far left media said. Ridiculous.

Why is it Trump that has to budge? It's clear that he wants $5B for the wall and is willing to agree to some pretty big dem priorities to get it. 6 months ago if you had asked the dems for $5B for irrelevant military spending in exchange for DACA, they'd have signed on in a heartbeat. But because its an irrelevant wall, they won't. Both sides are being stubborn. If the dems really cared about some of their pent-up priorities, they've got great opportunity with a small price to pay ($5B wasted on a wall).

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why is it Trump that has to budge? It's clear that he wants $5B for the wall and is willing to agree to some pretty big dem priorities to get it. 6 months ago if you had asked the dems for $5B for irrelevant military spending in exchange for DACA, they'd have signed on in a heartbeat. But because its an irrelevant wall, they won't. Both sides are being stubborn. If the dems really cared about some of their pent-up priorities, they've got great opportunity with a small price to pay ($5B wasted on a wall).

It is a dumb pissing contest with idiots on both sides. Pelosi claimed that building a wall is morally wrong. Really? We already have 700 miles of border wall. Is she going to suggest we tear it down?

[frank ryan]

It is a dumb pissing contest with idiots on both sides. Pelosi claimed that building a wall is morally wrong. Really? We already have 700 miles of border wall. Is she going to suggest we tear it down?

It’s not morally wrong per se but it’s unnesscary, impractical (does he want the Great Wall of China?) and a waste. Trump very much created this stand off. He is seeking a solution to a non-existent problem. A problem that he often talks about with xenophobic rhetoric.

That’s why he should budge. He is also refusing to do some stand alone funding for certain departments and agencies. Did you follow his statements leading up to the shutdown? He sounded excited about it.

BlueK isn’t wrong about Trump caring about the opinions of talk radio personalities etc.

[Uncle Ted]

It’s not morally wrong per se but it’s unnesscary, impractical (does he want the Great Wall of China?) and a waste. Trump very much created this stand off. He is seeking a solution to a non-existent problem. A problem that he often talks about with xenophobic rhetoric.

That’s why he should budge. He is also refusing to do some stand alone funding for certain departments and agencies. Did you follow his statements leading up to the shutdown? He sounded excited about it.

BlueK isn’t wrong about Trump caring about the opinions of talk radio personalities etc.

But how is Chuck going to get his system that stops illegal immigration?

One way to do it, as Ron Paul has stated many times, is to stop the economic incentives for illegal immigration. Why hasn't any dem suggested that instead of a wall? Illegal immigration is costing the tax payers about $135 billion a year (or $115 billion net after the taxes they pay). So if your argument is that a $5 billion border "barrier" upgrade is not going to pay for itself then what do you propose will? How would you help Chuck stop illegal immigration?

[PaloAltoCougar]

..
Illegal immigration is costing the tax payers about $135 billion a year (or $115 billion net after the taxes they pay). So if your argument is that a $5 billion border "barrier" upgrade is not going to pay for itself then what do you propose will? How would you help Chuck stop illegal immigration?

The question of the benefits/costs of immigration, illegal or otherwise is an interesting one that I'm still wrestling with. For now, I'll note that the study you linked was called "fatally flawed" by the libertarian Cato Institute.

[Uncle Ted]

The question of the benefits/costs of immigration, illegal or otherwise is an interesting one that I'm still wrestling with. For now, I'll note that the study you linked was called "fatally flawed" by the libertarian Cato Institute.

Yeah, there needs to be a better study. Nether study takes account other costs that you really can't put a price on...



https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...ration-murder/

[BlueK]

The question of the benefits/costs of immigration, illegal or otherwise is an interesting one that I'm still wrestling with. For now, I'll note that the study you linked was called "fatally flawed" by the libertarian Cato Institute.

that might have carried some weight with Ted during his libertarian days.

[Uncle Ted]

that might have carried some weight with Ted during his libertarian days.

Those studies, as the PACman says, are most likely flawed... It is hard to say given all the factors. It is most likely much more that this if you factor in that illegal immigration depresses wages as pointed out by the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine:

Mass immigration costs government $296 billion a year, depresses wages

Immigration drains the government, sapping as much as $296 billion a year from federal, state and local taxpayers while depressing wages, at least in the short run, according to an authoritative study released Wednesday by the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine.


The 500-page academic tome is supposed to be the final word about the fiscal and economic effects of mass immigration, and its findings challenge some long-held assumptions of Washington policymakers that immigration is an unqualified benefit.


The data show that immigrants take more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Although immigrants do boost the size of the economy, the gains are heavily skewed toward the immigrants themselves and to wealthy investors — not to native-born workers who end up competing with the new arrivals.
[...]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...on-year-natio/

I think Drumpf only said that illegal immigration only costs about $200 billion per year so maybe we should just go with that.