President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Northwestcoug]

I listened to the press conference live while I was driving back from a meeting. My overall impression is that the media is so preconditioned to see their image of trump they don't listen to what he is trying to say. I also think that Trump enjoys the frenzy, the attention, and the excitement. The press conference was chaotic and silly. Some of the questions asked were childish and many of his answers were obtuse, misleading or just dumb. He could have avoided much of the controversy that is already being discussed in the press by speaking carefully and efficiently. Of course, if he did speak that way it would be the first time. Bottom line, for me, si that he seemed to be trying to say that although the neo-nazis were bad people, there were also bad/violent people that attacked them. IOW, putting aside the merits of the ideas that motivate them, all people who engage in violence are bad and wrong. I don't have too much of a problem with that, but the media took him to be saying that the right and left were equivalent and this they could not abide. As a result, all chaos broke out. Trump, to his great discredit, seemed to enjoy the banter and never made the salient point he should have made. That said, I think much of the criticism I heard on MSNBC following the presser was over the top and was derived as much from their own preconceived notions as it was from what he actually said. Just MO.

There is a very finessed, articulate argument that can be had about the issues you bring up. Trump, obviously, is not the person to even try to make that argument.

That being said, I think it is clear from his press conference that he places more blame on the left for the violence. Listen to how he characterizes the right side, and how the first night there were only 'innocent' people protesting the removal of the statue. And then only after (according to him), the neo-nazis came out. Which of course, is factually incorrect. The torches were out and 'blood and soil' was being chanted that night. Also, the time he spent criticizing the left shows you which side he thinks has most of the blame.

I think by now we know who he is. He is alt-right, through and through.

[creekster]

There is a very finessed, articulate argument that can be had about the issues you bring up. Trump, obviously, is not the person to even try to make that argument.

That being said, I think it is clear from his press conference that he places more blame on the left for the violence. Listen to how he characterizes the right side, and how the first night there were only 'innocent' people protesting the removal of the statue. And then only after (according to him), the neo-nazis came out. Which of course, is factually incorrect. The torches were out and 'blood and soil' was being chanted that night. Also, the time he spent criticizing the left shows you which side he thinks has most of the blame.

I think by now we know who he is. He is alt-right, through and through.

DO you think he is someone different than he seemed to be during the election process? Real question, not a set up.

[frank ryan]

Purposeful is having a crisis of faith.

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[Donuthole]

frank, check out the "Mormons in the News" thread. WWAP is being discussed over there some today.

[frank ryan]

frank, check out the "Mormons in the News" thread. WWAP is being discussed over there some today.

oh my way!

[Northwestcoug]

DO you think he is someone different than he seemed to be during the election process? Real question, not a set up.

No, I think it was pretty clear who he was all along. He is a demagogue and is an embarrassment to the country. These past few months have pretty much solidified what I thought in the primary. But there are quite a few 'anti anti-Trumps' out there that are willing to cut him slack, at all political costs. I guess to them having a 'republican' president is worth all the crazy (this isn't directed at you).

[PaloAltoCougar]

Thats a good read and sounds about right, although I think Lee was a better military officer than the author gives him credit for. His view on race, however, was every bit as bad as it could be.

I liked the essay, but I agree the author's forte isn't in the area of things military, showing his apparent ignorance of differences between tactician and strategist.

It's a shame Trump is such a dunce because a leader with real intelligence and empathy would do a better job of addressing the apparent conflict of honoring/disclaiming historical figures with flaws. Sure, Washington had 300+ slaves and mistreated them at times, while being one of the greatest men in history for promoting/preserving the idea of democracy. More recently, Woodrow Wilson was a virulent racist, yet established the Federal Reserve system, the FTC, promoted international cooperation, etc.--granted some may dispute the virtues of his accomplishments, but he was a notable statesman and politician whose name may now be stricken from Princeton's School of Public and International Affairs.

Why try to expunge such people from the collective memory? Why not continue to honor their accomplishments while acknowledging their flaws, noting the inexorable trend away from the evils of the past?

I wish I could remember the author of a recent essay on this subject, but I believe it included F. Scott Fitzgerald's observation that, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." We're seeing a considerable lack of intelligence in the current climate, resulting in a failure to function.

[BlueK]

Purposeful is having a crisis of faith.

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If she's a white supremacist and LDS she was already having a crisis of faith.

[creekster]

Some unrelated links. New Trump-Russia emails could establish a 'devastating' legal entanglement for Paul Manafort:Newly reported emails show a campaign foreign-policy adviser's efforts to set up a meeting between Donald Trump, then a candidate, and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...7-8/?r=US&IR=T

Trump Returns to Blaming ‘Both Sides’ for Deadly Violence in Virginia.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ists-in-attack

Trump defends white supremacist rally, says it was really about protecting ‘very important’ statue

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-defe...-67f5a299bfb7/

That really softens Trump's condemnation of the racists. A peaceful counter protestor has killed. That is not because of "both sides." It's also unfortunate that he legitimizing the unite the right rally. It was planned by avowed racists and that's who attended, not a bunch of confederate history buffs.

SO I read through the articles and I was very disappointed in each of them for various reasons. For example, look at the first one. You present it, as did the web site, as an article about the "devastating" legal blow newly revealed emails present for Manafort becasue the emails show an aide trying to set up a meeting with Russia. One might conclude that the emails show manafort was on the prowl looking to meet with putin. This is not, of course, what the emails (or even the article) say. Instead, they show that the campaign was contacted repeatedly by an outsider suggesting he could set up a meeting with Russian officials, maybe including Putin, but this idea, was rejected by Manafort. The 'devastating' problem is that the emails show Manafort was aware of the Logan act issues and so can't claim ignorance with respect to the subsequent Don jr. meeting that did happen. That's it. In fact, the emails also show Manafort was pretty clear he did not want anything to do with trying to meet high level officials or Putin. It certainly doesn't exonerate Manafort and, depending upon the position he takes with regard to other issues, it might hem him in, but it doesn't come close to showing ANY collusion or even any cooperation between Trump's campaign and the Russians. SMH

[YOhio]

This is interesting:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...al-lee/529038/

The Robert E. Lee of myth doesn't match history.

Good article. Considering that Robert E. Lee was the general of a treasonous army that declared war on the United States of America I'm on board with destroying any glory given to him and the confederacy. Long overdue to burn it all down. Kind of reminds me of Rommel. Sure he may have been a helluva guy and brilliant military tactician, but he was still a Nazi. Game over. Bad guys lost and don't get statues.

[creekster]

If she's a white supremacist and LDS she was already having a crisis of faith.

SHe cant abide the CHurch's position becasue for some reason when the church says love everybody that means loving white people less.

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[frank ryan]

SO I read through the articles and I was very disappointed in each of them for various reasons. For example, look at the first one. You present it, as did the web site, as an article about the "devastating" legal blow newly revealed emails present for Manafort becasue the emails show an aide trying to set up a meeting with Russia. One might conclude that the emails show manafort was on the prowl looking to meet with putin. This is not, of course, what the emails (or even the article) say. Instead, they show that the campaign was contacted repeatedly by an outsider suggesting he could set up a meeting with Russian officials, maybe including Putin, but this idea, was rejected by Manafort. The 'devastating' problem is that the emails show Manafort was aware of the Logan act issues and so can't claim ignorance with respect to the subsequent Don jr. meeting that did happen. That's it. In fact, the emails also show Manafort was pretty clear he did not want anything to do with trying to meet high level officials or Putin. It certainly doesn't exonerate Manafort and, depending upon the position he takes with regard to other issues, it might hem him in, but it doesn't come close to showing ANY collusion or even any cooperation between Trump's campaign and the Russians. SMH

Of course you were disappointed but thanks (genuinely) for reading!

[frank ryan]

Good article. Considering that Robert E. Lee was the general of a treasonous army that declared war on the United States of America I'm on board with destroying any glory given to him and the confederacy. Long overdue to burn it all down. Kind of reminds me of Rommel. Sure he may have been a helluva guy and brilliant military tactician, but he was still a Nazi. Game over. Bad guys lost and don't get statues.

[creekster]

Of course you were disappointed but thanks for reading! So glad Hillary didn't win!

DO you dispute the point of my post? Rather than show collusion/cooperation the emails referenced show the OPPOSITE, yet are presented as though they are meaningful for some purpose other than cross-examination of Manafort.

ANd your little dig at my supposed vote for Trump is simply wrong. I did not vote for him. I could not vote for him now or ever. I can't stand the guy, but I see no purpose in needlessly undermining him when doing so simply perpetuates the divisive trends that are already present. We need to move forward. Wallowing in the russian mud serves no purpose until there si something substantive to see.

[frank ryan]

DO you dispute the point of my post? Rather than show collusion/cooperation the emails referenced show the OPPOSITE, yet are presented as though they are meaningful for some purpose other than cross-examination of Manafort.

ANd your little dig at my supposed vote for Trump is simply wrong. I did not vote for him. I could not vote for him now or ever. I can't stand the guy, but I see no purpose in needlessly undermining him when doing so simply perpetuates the divisive trends that are already present. We need to move forward. Wallowing in the russian mud serves no purpose until there si something substantive to see.

I edited my dig, but it was too late, you already quoted me. I do remember you remarking that you were glad Trump defeated Hillary. No, I don't agree with you. Why shouldn't Trump be scrutinized? He is an awful person. Why should he be given a pass past presidents didn't receive.