President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Paperback Writer]

Still seems like a distinction without a difference. Whatever.

Perhaps a distinction w/o a difference. But maybe the distinction is greater when one considers that Nazi Germany was defeated primarily by the Soviets on the Russian front.

[falafel]

You're missing the point. FDR wanted to pack the Court to get his New Deal programs through. He lost the battle of packing the Court, but won the war of getting many of his New Deal programs through. He got many of them through because the Court began to adopt a less restrictive review of the propriety of legislation, mostly through a loosening of the Commerce Clause, and a restricting of the review under the EP and DP Clauses. Hugo Black led that charge.

Ditto.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Perhaps a distinction w/o a difference. But maybe the distinction is greater when one considers that Nazi Germany was defeated primarily by the Soviets on the Russian front.

Haha. Oh boy. Here we go.

You are aware that we provided tons of war material to the Soviets too, right? And do you think world history would be the same with a defeated England and victorious Soviets ruling the entire European continent?

And oh yeah: Japan.

[creekster]

Haha. Oh boy. Here we go.

You are aware that we provided tons of war material to the Soviets too, right? And do you think world history would be the same with a defeated England and victorious Soviets ruling the entire European continent?

And oh yeah: Japan.

That's true but Stalin constantly complained to Churchill and fdr that they were sending guns and sitting in safety across the channel watching all the Russians get killed. He wanted the allies to invade the continent long before June 44.

[BigFatMeanie]

That's true but Stalin constantly complained to Churchill and fdr that they were sending guns and sitting in safety across the channel watching all the Russians get killed. He wanted the allies to invade the continent long before June 44.

Don't North Africa and Sicily and Italy count for anything?

[Paperback Writer]

Haha. Oh boy. Here we go.

You are aware that we provided tons of war material to the Soviets too, right? And do you think world history would be the same with a defeated England and victorious Soviets ruling the entire European continent?

And oh yeah: Japan.

You are correct. And if that alternate history would have occurred, then perhaps FDR would have saved the US from Nazi Germany Communist Russia.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Don't North Africa and Sicily and Italy count for anything?

Stalin wanted D-Day to occur the year before it did. He complained that the USSR was doing all the heavy lifting. Some truth to that, but we were destroying the Luftwaffe and bombing German factories and towns into rubble.

As for the inevitability of Soviet victory, people forget that the German forces stalled in the mud and snow literally within sight of Moscow. Had Hitler not delayed the invasion by 30 days so he could wipe out a minor rebellion in Yugoslavia, history may have been much different.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

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[Paperback Writer]

Stalin wanted D-Day to occur the year before it did. He complained that the USSR was doing all the heavy lifting. Some truth to that, but we were destroying the Luftwaffe and bombing German factories and towns into rubble.

As for the inevitability of Soviet victory, people forget that the German forces stalled in the mud and snow literally within sight of Moscow. Had Hitler not delayed the invasion by 30 days so he could wipe out a minor rebellion in Yugoslavia, history may have been much different.

Operation Barbarossa also failed because Hitler didn't prepare for a winter war and the Soviets did. And America had not entered WWII at that point. Another turning point in Europe in WWII was the Battle of Britain. Also fought and won without US participation.

[falafel]

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Is Grover part of Weird Twitter?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Operation Barbarossa also failed because Hitler didn't prepare for a winter war and the Soviets did. And America had not entered WWII at that point. Another turning point in Europe in WWII was the Battle of Britain. Also fought and won without US participation.

Had they conquered Moscow, the winter weather would have been less impactful.

Did anyone argue that the Battle of Britain was not significant? Churchill argued on countless occasions that US intervention (including lend-lease) was critical to the survival of Britain. Ridiculous to argue otherwise.

[Solon]

lol. No he didn't.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...lost-78497994/



Yes, it was worse. Probably the worst blunder of his presidency. But it was done at a different time under dramatically different circumstances. But I counterbalance that with how he saved the US by correctly foreseeing the danger of Nazi Germany and dragging the US kicking and screaming into supporting England and preparing for war.

IMO, one of FDR's greatest achievements was preventing the US from sliding into the world's extreme-isms of the 1930s - communism on the left & fascism on the right. You and I take it for granted that American democracy was/always has been on safe & stable footing, but this is an argument from hindsight. It is reasonable to suggest that, without the New Deal, American democracy could have been severely weakened or transformed by the pressures of the Great Depression. But Roosevelt, like any other leader, doesn't get credit for preventing what didn't happen.

[Jeff Lebowski]

IMO, one of FDR's greatest achievements was preventing the US from sliding into the world's extreme-isms of the 1930s - communism on the left & fascism on the right. You and I take it for granted that American democracy was/always has been on safe & stable footing, but this is an argument from hindsight. It is reasonable to suggest that, without the New Deal, American democracy could have been severely weakened or transformed by the pressures of the Great Depression. But Roosevelt, like any other leader, doesn't get credit for preventing what didn't happen.

Absolutely. As radical as the New Deal was, there were far more extreme proposals out there and some of them had momentum and backing. The Great Depression set the stage for some craziness.

[wuapinmon]

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From a Pennsylvania state senator, with apologies to creekster.

[Jeff Lebowski]

From a Pennsylvania state senator, with apologies to creekster.

Wow. That is a nicely crafted insult. Impressive.