Trigger warnings, safe spaces, and fascism on college campuses

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have a daughter taking "government" classes, which is part of the humanities education at her university. She tended to be very left in high school, but has since moderated a bit as we've discussed some issues. It sounds like her classes can still have robust discussions but she also goes to school in Texas, and while the university is liberal there still tends to be more diversity of thought there than I think you'd find in morel liberal states. I did find it funny that she posted an invitation to a political discourse function held at the school and it was intended to allow candidates for state offices to have a debate or express their views, and all the attendees were all Democrats...

The last time I talked to my old grad school advisor at Texas (he is retired now), he expressed a ton of frustration with the university. "The whole place has gone woke!".

He did his PhD at Berkeley in the late 60's and told me stories of how he would sneak past the protesters and climb in through windows so he could attend his classes.

Haha.

[BigPiney]

I've probably shared this before...

One of my best friends is a poly sci prof at BYU. When he was getting his PHD at UCLA he would take the conservative viewpoint in discussions to challenge the kids there. Now at BYU he presents a liberal argument to counter the prevailing viewpoints of the kids he teaches and varies depending on the class. I imagine he does a great job. His areas of focus are War and international conflict, so pretty relevant.

And he just got tenure this year, so he is there to stay if he can keep his head down. He is smart and does not have a twitter account.

Funny thing, when he was trying to get jobs, he interviewed at byu-I, but got rejected by Clark Gilbert. Then he got interviews at BYU and got the job. Huge sigh of relief from him and his wife there.

[BigFatMeanie]

Isn't "tenure" at BYU not called "tenure" but has some other name?

EDIT: Some googling leads me to think it's called Continuing Faculty Status

https://policy.byu.edu/view/rank-and-status-policy

[Jeff Lebowski]

Isn't "tenure" at BYU not called "tenure" but has some other name?

EDIT: Some googling leads me to think it's called Continuing Faculty Status

https://policy.byu.edu/view/rank-and-status-policy

That is correct. But essentially the same thing.

[Omaha 680]

if you spent a couple million dollars on prek-12 private school tuition, an extra $120k to help your kid get into an ivy is probably worth it.

When you put it that way, yes it makes sense. We moved away from NYC the summer before my daughter entered kindergarten. She was extremely bright for a small child and scored in the 99th percentile on the NYC public schools kindergarten screening exam (yes this is a thing), which qualified her to enter the public school gifted and talented program. When we shared with our friends that she had been accepted to the program but we were probably moving away, most nearly lost their mind...as if we were throwing away a chance for our daughter to be President some day. So I agree that this kind of money is spent by all rich people to advance their children, but it's on an entirely different level in the northeast. The hyper-competitiveness in every aspect of life is nuts.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Dartmouth today announced that they are going back to requiring the SAT for all college applicants. Like most universities, they made it optional during COVID. There is compelling evidence now that nothing is a better predictor of success than standardized tests. As we have seen in this thread, essays are a racket. GPA is not reliable. Furthermore, eliminating standardized tests had a negative impact on poor and disadvantaged kids. Standardized tests was one area where they could compete on relatively equal footing. They obviously can't afford to hire a company to help write their essays.

Bravo to Dartmouth. I hope more universities follow suit. Including BYU.

[Pelado]

Dartmouth today announced that they are going back to requiring the SAT for all college applicants. Like most universities, they made it optional during COVID. There is compelling evidence now that nothing is a better predictor of success than standardized tests. As we have seen in this thread, essays are a racket. GPA is not reliable. Furthermore, eliminating standardized tests had a negative impact on poor and disadvantaged kids. Standardized tests was one area where they could compete on relatively equal footing. They obviously can't afford to hire a company to help write their essays.

Bravo to Dartmouth. I hope more universities follow suit. Including BYU.

Do you have a preference on SAT vs ACT?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Do you have a preference on SAT vs ACT?

No.

[BigPiney]

Dartmouth today announced that they are going back to requiring the SAT for all college applicants. Like most universities, they made it optional during COVID. There is compelling evidence now that nothing is a better predictor of success than standardized tests. As we have seen in this thread, essays are a racket. GPA is not reliable. Furthermore, eliminating standardized tests had a negative impact on poor and disadvantaged kids. Standardized tests was one area where they could compete on relatively equal footing. They obviously can't afford to hire a company to help write their essays.

Bravo to Dartmouth. I hope more universities follow suit. Including BYU.

That is good news. My daughter took and submitted both standardized tests.

[Applejack]

That is correct. But essentially the same thing.

Is this true? Doesn't CFS mean that you have to have a temple recommend to continue being employed? If so, I see that as a HUGE difference with tenure.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Is this true? Doesn't CFS mean that you have to have a temple recommend to continue being employed? If so, I see that as a HUGE difference with tenure.

No, Continuing Faculty Status (CFS) means that you have passed the standard 6-year review for new faculty where if you fail your contract is not renewed, but if you pass you are advanced from Assistant to Associate Professor status and you move from annual contracts to a permanent contract. The review is based on an assessment of your teaching, research, and citizenship (service) and includes external letters of review. The overall process is identical to the tenure process at most universities.

Having a temple recommend is a requirement for all BYU employees - both faculty and staff.

[Paperback Writer]

Dartmouth today announced that they are going back to requiring the SAT for all college applicants. Like most universities, they made it optional during COVID. There is compelling evidence now that nothing is a better predictor of success than standardized tests. As we have seen in this thread, essays are a racket. GPA is not reliable. Furthermore, eliminating standardized tests had a negative impact on poor and disadvantaged kids. Standardized tests was one area where they could compete on relatively equal footing. They obviously can't afford to hire a company to help write their essays.

Bravo to Dartmouth. I hope more universities follow suit. Including BYU.

While I agree with using standardized tests in the college acceptance process, I still have a hard time with the way Dartmouth (and probably other Ivy/elite universities) use test scores in their acceptance decision. Specifically, the article quoted Dartmouth's president that they look for deltas in test results - comparing a student's test score with averages from the applicant's high school. So it's not just not achieving a high test score but getting a much higher test score than one's classmates. That was where the poor/disadvantaged students were making a mistake on their college applications to Dartmouth - they thought their test scores were too low so they opted not to submit them (when it was optional) but they should have submitted them because they had a high delta compared to their classmates.

The reason I have a hard time with using test score deltas is that I think a very useful criteria in determining success in college is looking at the quality of high school a perspective student is graduating from. In my own experience, I've met several families who have moved to the north Dallas suburbs from Dallas for better schools. If they wanted the best chance with acceptance to Dartmouth, they would have been better off with not moving and leaving their kids enrolled in a lesser quality high school.

In short, I think we need to be careful with any "bravos" to Dartmouth. I do agree with making test scores mandatory. However, I have a problem when a 1300 SAT score from an applicant from a high school with poor average test scores gets admitted over a student with a 1400 from a high school with higher average test scores. Which student is best positioned for success at Dartmouth? In defence of Dartmouth, they have an uphill battle when it comes to their DEI objectives and balancing those with successful student outcomes.

[Jeff Lebowski]

While I agree with using standardized tests in the college acceptance process, I still have a hard time with the way Dartmouth (and probably other Ivy/elite universities) use test scores in their acceptance decision. Specifically, the article quoted Dartmouth's president that they look for deltas in test results - comparing a student's test score with averages from the applicant's high school. So it's not just not achieving a high test score but getting a much higher test score than one's classmates. That was where the poor/disadvantaged students were making a mistake on their college applications to Dartmouth - they thought their test scores were too low so they opted not to submit them (when it was optional) but they should have submitted them because they had a high delta compared to their classmates.

The reason I have a hard time with using test score deltas is that I think a very useful criteria in determining success in college is looking at the quality of high school a perspective student is graduating from. In my own experience, I've met several families who have moved to the north Dallas suburbs from Dallas for better schools. If they wanted the best chance with acceptance to Dartmouth, they would have been better off with not moving and leaving their kids enrolled in a lesser quality high school.

In short, I think we need to be careful with any "bravos" to Dartmouth. I do agree with making test scores mandatory. However, I have a problem when a 1300 SAT score from an applicant from a high school with poor average test scores gets admitted over a student with a 1400 from a high school with higher average test scores. Which student is best positioned for success at Dartmouth? In defence of Dartmouth, they have an uphill battle when it comes to their DEI objectives and balancing those with successful student outcomes.

What makes you think they only consider test scores? That is most certainly not the case.

Also, what makes you think they don't look at the HS when considering the GPA? I know for a fact that BYU uses a machine learning algorithm that factors in the high school, courses takes, grades in specific courses, overall grades, and a host of other things when assessing a candidate's likelihood of success in college.

[BigPiney]

What makes you think they only consider test scores? That is most certainly not the case.

Also, what makes you think they don't look at the HS when considering the GPA? I know for a fact that BYU uses a machine learning algorithm that factors in the high school, courses takes, grades in specific courses, overall grades, and a host of other things when assessing a candidate's likelihood of success in college.

Speaking of which, 13 days till my favorite day on cougarboard. BYU decision day is interesting to hear about all the seminary class presidents that didn't get in and how that should have made the difference.

Of course I get nervous when my kids are involved like this year. I wish other schools gave their notifications that early. I am hearing with the FAFSA issues this year that some colleges won't have notifications till mid-April.

[Paperback Writer]

What makes you think they only consider test scores? That is most certainly not the case.

Also, what makes you think they don't look at the HS when considering the GPA? I know for a fact that BYU uses a machine learning algorithm that factors in the high school, courses takes, grades in specific courses, overall grades, and a host of other things when assessing a candidate's likelihood of success in college.

Maybe it wasn't obvious, but I'm well aware of college admission criteria after guiding my kids (and several of their friends) through the process. I was just bringing up a hypothetical where two students may have similar credentials but one with a lower SAT score gets admitted to Dartmouth because she graduated from a high school with lower average SAT scores over a similar student with a higher SAT score. I'm in agreement with you (at least I think so) with the algorithm factors BYU uses as important factors in determining success in college. I agree with you that SAT/ACT scores allow students to compete on a "relatively equal footing". What I have a problem with is using test score deltas on standardized tests in the admission decision. Unlike GPA, why should a high school matter when it comes to a standardized test?