"Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" - The Socialism Thread

[New Mexican Disaster]

In the history of the world the government systems that have most abridged liberty and committed genocide--indeed, pioneered totalitarianism and genocide--have been theocratic or had the word socialism or socialist in the names by which they identified themselves. .

This right here.

[byu71]

At noon the fed anounces a rate hike or they don't. I hope they do. Anyone have some inside information. I would like to make a few quick bucks.

[San Juan Sun]

Anyone have some inside information.

[SeattleUte]

This right here.

So the Nazis and Soviets called themselves socialists, but you say we shouldn't accept that at face value and wonder if someone else who calls himself that is similar? They had planned economies, did they not? Do you think they weren't socialists? Also, Nazi and USSR wasn't merely the name of a party.

[pellegrino]

so disappointed in this thread. thought I would be reading about how the rivalry is alive and well, not politics.

[SeattleUte]

so disappointed in this thread. thought I would be reading about how the rivalry is alive and well, not politics.

There's nothing more interesting than this subject. Here's what's hard for some well-meaning people to grasp. You can't separate economic liberty from other liberties. It's not a coincidence that the richest countries most highly value human rights and are the freest, the cleanest, the most protective of the environment, and actually pioneered representative government, civil rights, and so on. Science, education, charity, the rule of law, environmentalism, all require accumulation of capital. Unless our basic needs are satisfied we're going to be looking to taking from someone or some animal by force to satisfy them.

But that is not all. Hardly. Capitalism doesn't care about race, creed, ethnicity, or gender. What matters is customers, clients, suppliers, etc., whoever can make you money or has something to sell that will help make you and it make more money or make your life easier or more pleasurable. The indiscriminate, universal quality of capitalism is a beautiful thing, and as a practical matter the actual force that makes "the American dream" possible. The laws are just the rule book that try to make capitalism fair--because it is also competitive. At a practice level capitalism necessarily dissolves tribalism and cultural chauvinism--it's not about religious differences, race or nationality. On the contrary; it's all about sales and profits. Capitalism always precedes love for your fellow creatures. Nietzsche was right; capitalism is perhaps the most lasting fruit of Christianity, and it's also the one that ultimately redeems it.

[Topper]

There's nothing more interesting than this subject. Here's what's hard for some well-meaning people to grasp. You can't separate economic liberty from other liberties. It's not a coincidence that the richest countries most highly value human rights and are the freest, the cleanest, the most protective of the environment, and actually pioneered representative government, civil rights, and so on. Science, education, charity, the rule of law, environmentalism, all require accumulation of capital. Unless our basic needs are satisfied we're going to be looking to taking from someone or some animal by force to satisfy them.

But that is not all. Hardly. Capitalism doesn't care about race, creed, ethnicity, or gender. What matters is customers, clients, suppliers, etc., whoever can make you money or has something to sell that will help make you and it make more money or make your life easier or more pleasurable. The indiscriminate, universal quality of capitalism is a beautiful thing, and as a practical matter the actual force that makes "the American dream" possible. The laws are just the rule book that try to make capitalism fair--because it is also competitive. At a practice level capitalism necessarily dissolves tribalism and cultural chauvinism--it's not about religious differences, race or nationality. On the contrary; it's all about sales and profits. Capitalism always precedes love for your fellow creatures. Nietzsche was right; capitalism is perhaps the most lasting fruit of Christianity, and it's also the one that ultimately redeems it.

I like your take on capitalism. The only add-on for a summary statement such as this is that capitalism succeeds in benefiting society if competition remains, so it's one of government primary functions to ensure competition remains robust. (You probably imply that with your statement about the purpose of laws). Again economic liberty is one of the most valuable liberties society should protect.

[frank ryan]

[Topper]

I loved it when Reagan busted the Air Traffic Controllers Union. If not for anything else, Walker is a hero for busting the government unions in Wisco.

[SeattleUte]

Well done, Frank. Your image captures perfectly the socialist delusion.

[frank ryan]

I loved it when Reagan busted the Air Traffic Controllers Union. If not for anything else, Walker is a hero for busting the government unions in Wisco.

Now you are trying to get under my skin. :finger3:

[frank ryan]

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[byu71]

Well done, Frank. Your image captures perfectly the socialist delusion.

Some imaginative person should use that but insert President Obama and Elizabeth Warren side by side throwing out the money.

[SeattleUte]

Another country destroyed by socialism. Not so long ago Venezuela was the richest country in South America per capita.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst.../#52398d7a4544

[SeattleUte]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/wo...e-iphone-share

The last paragraph of this passage from the article is unbearably ironic (I bet Canada disagrees!):

Supplies are lacking, electricity goes out, equipment is broken and patients lie in pools of blood as the country’s economic crisis has exploded into a public health emergency.
The crisis is caught now in a political feud between Venezuela’s leftists, who control the presidency, and their rivals in congress. The president’s opponents in the legislature declared a humanitarian crisis in January, and this month passed a law that would allow Venezuela to accept international aid to prop up the health care system.
“This is criminal that we can sit in a country with this much oil, and people are dying for lack of antibiotics,” says Oneida Guaipe, a lawmaker and former hospital union leader.
But Mr. Maduro, who succeeded Hugo Chávez, went on television and rejected the effort, describing the move as a bid to undermine him and privatize the hospital system.
“I doubt that anywhere in the world, except in Cuba, there exists a better health system than this one,” Mr. Maduro said.