Any insights into the recent string of race flare ups?

[The_Tick]

All of the time.

[wuapinmon]

http://theweek.com/articles/554944/wealth-gap-grows-brooklyn-how-racism-perpetuates-housing-inequality?utm_source=links&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=twitter

If there's a black tenant in the house — in every building we have, I put in white tenants. They want to know if black people are going to be living there. So sometimes we have 10 apartments and everything is white, and then all of the sudden one tenant comes in with one black roommate, and they don't like it. They see black people and get all riled up, they call me: "We're not paying that much money to have black people live in the building." If it's white tenants only, it's clean. I know it's a little bit racist but it's not. They're the ones that are paying and I have to give them what they want. Or I'm not going to get the tenants and the money is not going to be what it is. [New York]

This statement is a perfect encapsulation of how racism, differing levels of access to the legal system, and the legacy of past expropriation combine to lock black people out of the housing wealth machine. Of course, this story is mostly about renters, not owners, but it does illustrate the machinery at work. (The landlord in the story, needless to say, is not black.)
Though I rather doubt that white Brooklyn renters are all so baldly racist as to straight-up demand no black people be allowed in their building, it doesn't make much difference. Open, straightforward bigotry is not necessary for this exclusion machine to operate. The people who move into the neighborhood north of H Street in Washington, D.C. and call the police every time they see a black man are undoubtedly earnest liberals.
The main point is that a neighborhood without blacks is more valuable, and that brings tremendous pressure to bear against blacks getting access to housing wealth. You can see this happening in many places beyond Brooklyn — the foreclosure crisis in Prince George's County, the richest majority-black community in the nation, is ongoing, thanks to a predatory campaign by banks to funnel blacks into crappy mortgages. And when they're not dealing with that, they're being forced out of their homes so white residential areas can double in value, or stuck with houses in black areas that don't accrue in value simply because of segregation.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Slavery ended 150 years ago. Jim Crow laws were abolished only 50 years ago. Don't think for a moment that just because it has ended legally doesn't mean that white society doesn't still have its boot heel on the neck of Black America. wuap's article is one. Here's another that I think pretty decisively demonstrates that the government has had a strong hand in preventing poor black Americans from access to the capital they need to become home ownership. The HUD has been racist from its beginning and largely still is, thanks to bureaucratic inertia.

http://www.epi.org/blog/from-ferguso...d-segregation/

There are a lot of clickable phrases in that link. Read them all and then come and tell me that what happened 300 years ago (or 50) isn't relevant.

ps- have you ever thought why the heroin and crack cocaine epidemics have hit the black community so strong? Who introduced those drugs to the USA? When did they do it and why didn't whites suffer the same way?

In the 50s and into the early 60s the black family was significantly stronger than it is now. I didn't say what happened 300 years ago didn't have any relevance, but that the more proximate cause were more recent problems that affected society in general and particularly the black population because it combined with the results of their unequal footing prior to the civil rights advancements of the 60s.

Maybe you can tell me why slavery affects the black family so much more in 2015 than in 1965, so that the illegitimacy rate now is over 70%. Until the 60s, I believe black and white illegitimacy rates were somewhat comparable.

This isn't even a liberal vs conservative issue anymore. Robert Putnam, hardly a man of the right, has discussed this extensively and just released a book on the topic. Another factor he discusses is the hollowing out of the manufacturing sector throughout the rust belt. But the central point is that the single greatest indicator of whether someone will live on poverty is whether they have had kids without a father in the home or they are a child living in such a home.

That's by far the more proximate cause for the current state of much of the black population. Again, despite a few anecdotes from the resident born and bred southern hillbilly on this forum, the overwhelming majority of people in authority with regard to giving out jobs and extending capital/mortgages aren't racists.

[pellegrino]

In the 50s and into the early 60s the black family was significantly stronger than it is now. I didn't say what happened 300 years ago didn't have any relevance, but that the more proximate cause were more recent problems that affected society in general and particularly the black population because it combined with the results of their unequal footing prior to the civil rights advancements of the 60s.

Maybe you can tell me why slavery affects the black family so much more in 2015 than in 1965, so that the illegitimacy rate now is over 70%. Until the 60s, I believe black and white illegitimacy rates were somewhat comparable.

This isn't even a liberal vs conservative issue anymore. Robert Putnam, hardly a man of the right, has discussed this extensively and just released a book on the topic. Another factor he discusses is the hollowing out of the manufacturing sector throughout the rust belt. But the central point is that the single greatest indicator of whether someone will live on poverty is whether they have had kids without a father in the home or they are a child living in such a home.

That's by far the more proximate cause for the current state of much of the black population. Again, despite a few anecdotes from the resident born and bred southern hillbilly on this forum, the overwhelming majority of people in authority with regard to giving out jobs and extending capital/mortgages aren't racists.

I would suggest that the hollowing out of the African American family, as you put it, is a direct result of the racist laws on the books throughout most of the last century. If you combine that with the racist rhetoric of the war on drugs and the virtual disappearance of the "Black Wall Street" economy that existed during segregation then you have a perfect malaise for the continued systemic oppression of African Americans.

That said, I think your denial of the deep seated racism that still exists in this nation is cute, for lack of a better word. I think enough evidence has been put forth to show that even when it isn't popular, or viewed as correct, racism is still alive and well. Ask Santos, he'll tell you.

edit: ok, maybe naive would be better than cute, but I'm not sure that it's much better.

[frank ryan]

I would suggest that the hollowing out of the African American family, as you put it, is a direct result of the racist laws on the books throughout most of the last century. If you combine that with the racist rhetoric of the war on drugs and the virtual disappearance of the "Black Wall Street" economy that existed during segregation then you have a perfect malaise for the continued systemic oppression of African Americans.

That said, I think your denial of the deep seated racism that still exists in this nation is cute, for lack of a better word. I think enough evidence has been put forth to show that even when it isn't popular, or viewed as correct, racism is still alive and well. Ask Santos, he'll tell you.

edit: ok, maybe naive would be better than cute, but I'm not sure that it's much better.

The criminal justice system is has provided black men with so many wonderful rehabilitative opportunities

[Paperback Writer]

It's anecdotal but I had a long conversation about this topic with a principal of a diverse high school. He has a fairly good cross section of students across multiple ethnicities and income levels from middle class to poor. An observation he had about his African American students was that recent immigrants from Africa were excelling, some were getting admitted to very good universities. For the most part, these immigrants were lower-middle class and their parents were not highly educated. Their children were doing well in school and on a path to a successful future. However, many of his non-immigrant African American students were struggling and not on a similar path. His observation was that the "American Dream" was within reach of these immigrant African Americans but was not always the case with non-immigrant African Americans. He attributed this to stronger immigrant families with two parents and their emphasis on education. However, the historical struggles due to slavery and discrimination of African Americans in this country also has to play a role in ways that I cannot fully understand. There has to be an explanation for why African American immigrants seem to succeed while their counterparts who have been in America for generations seem to continue to struggle. If there are current barriers due to discrimination, neither group would succeed.

[wuapinmon]

Again, despite a few anecdotes from the resident born and bred southern hillbilly on this forum, the overwhelming majority of people in authority with regard to giving out jobs and extending capital/mortgages aren't racists.

I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.

Demonstrable data from respected sources (e.g.,Harvard, Yale, Oxford, MIT)

1. Employers discriminate in calling back people with "black sounding" names: http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

2. . There remains a stagnant wage gap between white and black salaries in the same professions: http://www.econ.yale.edu/~jga22/webs...nd%20blank.pdf

3. . The lack of inherited wealth from previous generations means that there is a double-digit difference in home ownership rates between white (64%) and black (41.6%) in 2002 before the Great Recession: http://www.brandeis.edu/provost/dive...n_American.pdf

4. During the housing bubble, the home ownership rates for whites increased to 74% and 47% for blacks: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/...cks-hispanics/

5. The Great Recession saw a disparate decrease in the household wealth of whites and blacks: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/...cks-hispanics/

Blacks: The net worth of black households fell from $12,124 in 2005 to $5,677 in 2009, a decline of 53%. Like Hispanics, black households drew a large share (59%) of their net worth from home equity in 2005. Thus, the housing downturn had a strong impact on their net worth. Blacks also took on more unsecured debt during the economic downturn, with the median level rising by 27%.
Whites: The drop in the wealth of white households was modest in comparison, falling 16% from $134,992 in 2005 to $113,149 in 2009. White households were also affected by the housing crisis. But home equity accounts for relatively less of their total net worth (44% in 2005), and that served to lessen the impact of the housing bust. Median levels of unsecured debt among whites rose by 32%.

6. Contemporary studies of hiring practices continue to show disparity in hiring choices, even among blacks preferentially hiring whites over black applicants: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...ihms222293.pdf

7. The darker a black man's skin, the more likely he'll experience longer periods of involuntary unemployment, will experience shorter stable employment periods, and will spend longer trying to acquire another job in his field. This study was conducted with men from the same school and neighborhood in California over several years and controlled for age, education, and even criminal record: http://econ2.econ.iastate.edu/classe...0Gender%29.pdf
The study also noted that two earlier studies show that the same thing happens in Brazil.

8. There are massive differences by race among pretrial diversions for blacks vs. whites. Felony convictions for similar offences happen far more often to blacks than other racial groups, and felony convictions include the loss of many rights as well as a massive decrease in lifetime wage potential due to employer reluctance to hire convicted felons: http://raj.sagepub.com/content/3/3/210.refs

9. Access to education before entering the workforce, and the quality of that education and opportunities outside the classroom, account for a substantial difference in earning potential for black men with post-highschool education: http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...b085000000.pdf

A natural interpretation of our results is that in the U.S.market for college-educated men, rewards for productive skillsare the same for minority men as for the majority. It isimportant, though, to repeat the caveat expressed above. Wecannot rule out the possibility that the reduced wages associatedwith speaking a language other than English at home (forHispanics and Asians) or with being born in the South (forblacks) are the consequence of cultural or class prejudice.Perhaps skin color or ethnicity per se is not the key factor indiscriminatory practice, but rather prejudice aimed at minoritymen who are seen as “not fitting in” in the majority culture.More generally, our research underscores a theme that isfrequently expressed in the recent literature—that the key toreducing existing race and ethnicity wage disparities is theremoval of obstacles that impede skill acquisition by minoritychildren and youth. The literature has noted large raceand ethnicity wage gaps among college-educated men—evidence that has led some to conclude that improved educationalopportunities for minorities cannot be the solution toreducing wage disparities. Our work suggests, to the contrary,that even among the most highly educated, minoritywage gaps are in large measure the consequence of differentialacquisition of productive skills. An important goal forresearch and policy is to identify and implement effectiveways of reducing this disparity

10. Blacks who complain or sue over workplace discrimination are less likely to achieve the same outcomes as other minorities: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10....-4020-3455-5_1

11. White with felony drug convictions are just as likely as a black man with a clean record to get a job callback: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/0...nces-for-hire/

12. Blacks are last hired/first fired during economic cycles: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000014/

I could keep on going, but I'm hoping that by now, you get the point. Also good reading for you might be:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/americas-racism-problem-far-complicated-think/

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1870408,00.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3046837/posts

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2014/12/04/the-exhausting-task-of-being-black-in-america/19894223/

[Jeff Lebowski]

Can't believe we are debating this.

[Commando]

Can't believe we are debating this.

What do you mean? Racism doesn't exist outside of myself and Santos.

[pellegrino]

Can't believe we are debating this.

Actually, I think the video that wuap posted explains the essence of the debate that is being had here. CMBF (and I think most Americans) is focusing on the individual levels of racism and arguing that because internal racism is lower than in the past, systemic racism is non existent. That's an important thing for people to realize. Just because one doesn't feel racist, just because one doesn't know any racists, doesn't mean that racism on an institutional level doesn't exist and routinely oppress African Americans and others.

[TripletDaddy]

Actually, I think the video that wuap posted explains the essence of the debate that is being had here. CMBF (and I think most Americans) is focusing on the individual levels of racism and arguing that because internal racism is lower than in the past, systemic racism is non existent. That's an important thing for people to realize. Just because one doesn't feel racist, just because one doesn't know any racists, doesn't mean that racism on an institutional level doesn't exist and routinely oppress African Americans and others.

I think his argument is not that it does not exist but that it "isnt as bad" as it was historically. This misses the mark for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that institutional racism could still be less prevalent than in the past and still concurrently be high enough to prevent a critical mass from upward mobility.

[wuapinmon]

I think his argument is not that it does not exist but that it "isnt as bad" as it was historically. This misses the mark for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that institutional racism could still be less prevalent than in the past and still concurrently be high enough to prevent a critical mass from upward mobility.

I spent too much time today trying to figure out how to say this, but not finding the words to do so. Thank you.

[pellegrino]

I think his argument is not that it does not exist but that it "isnt as bad" as it was historically. This misses the mark for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that institutional racism could still be less prevalent than in the past and still concurrently be high enough to prevent a critical mass from upward mobility.

not sure he ever conceded that point.

[Goatnapper'96]

I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.

Needleneck Wanker quote of the year!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM

Not an applicable clip content wise, but it will always make me laugh.

[Goatnapper'96]

Actually, I think the video that wuap posted explains the essence of the debate that is being had here. CMBF (and I think most Americans) is focusing on the individual levels of racism and arguing that because internal racism is lower than in the past, systemic racism is non existent. That's an important thing for people to realize. Just because one doesn't feel racist, just because one doesn't know any racists, doesn't mean that racism on an institutional level doesn't exist and routinely oppress African Americans and others.

I think this trend is exacerbated by events such as "Hands Up Don't Shoot." I think most are aware to some extent of historic/institutional/systemic racism, but I think there is no real consensus exactly on how much it is to blame for the current situation of poor blacks versus other cultural self-imposed variables. Then there is the entire angle concerning the respective inneffectiveness of activist government policies at fixing the situation.