ISIS = Islamic State = Bad People

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  • snowcat
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1348

    #61
    Excellent article from the Atlantic explaining the motivation and goals behind ISIS.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/

    The Islamic State, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), follows a distinctive variety of Islam whose beliefs about the path to the Day of Judgment matter to its strategy, and can help the West know its enemy and predict its behavior. Its rise to power is less like the triumph of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (a group whose leaders the Islamic State considers apostates) than like the realization of a dystopian alternate reality in which David Koresh or Jim Jones survived to wield absolute power over not just a few hundred people, but some 8 million.

    We have misunderstood the nature of the Islamic State in at least two ways. First, we tend to see jihadism as monolithic, and to apply the logic of al‑Qaeda to an organization that has decisively eclipsed it. The Islamic State supporters I spoke with still refer to Osama bin Laden as “Sheikh Osama,” a title of honor. But jihadism has evolved since al-Qaeda’s heyday, from about 1998 to 2003, and many jihadists disdain the group’s priorities and current leadership.

    Bin Laden viewed his terrorism as a prologue to a caliphate he did not expect to see in his lifetime. His organization was flexible, operating as a geographically diffuse network of autonomous cells. The Islamic State, by contrast, requires territory to remain legitimate, and a top-down structure to rule it. (Its bureaucracy is divided into civil and military arms, and its territory into provinces.)

    We are misled in a second way, by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature. Peter Bergen, who produced the first interview with bin Laden in 1997, titled his first book Holy War, Inc. in part to acknowledge bin Laden as a creature of the modern secular world. Bin Laden corporatized terror and franchised it out. He requested specific political concessions, such as the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia. His foot soldiers navigated the modern world confidently. On Mohammad Atta’s last full day of life, he shopped at Walmart and ate dinner at Pizza Hut.

    There is a temptation to rehearse this observation—that jihadists are modern secular people, with modern political concerns, wearing medieval religious disguise—and make it fit the Islamic State. In fact, much of what the group does looks nonsensical except in light of a sincere, carefully considered commitment to returning civilization to a seventh-century legal environment, and ultimately to bringing about the apocalypse.
    One of the grandest benefits of the enlightenment was the realization that our moral sense must be based on the welfare of living individuals, not on their immortal souls. Honest and passionate folks can strongly disagree regarding spiritual matters, so it's imperative that we not allow such considerations to infringe on the real happiness of real people.

    Woot

    I believe religion has much inherent good and has born many good fruits.
    SU

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    • TripletDaddy
      sweet triple
      • Nov 2008
      • 58186

      #62
      Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

      sigpic

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      • BigFatMeanie
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 7154

        #63
        ISIS renewing death threats against Twitter: http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/isis-twitter-threat

        Comment

        • byu71
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2008
          • 22070

          #64
          Originally posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
          ISIS renewing death threats against Twitter: http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/isis-twitter-threat
          Pretty darn scary. They are perfecting bullying and intimidation. I don't think I would ever say anything rotten about them on twitter or facebook and I am sure they couldn't care less about me.

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          • Jeff Lebowski
            Corporate lackey for Jesus
            • Nov 2008
            • 69830

            #65
            This is evil on a breathtaking scale.

            The latest news and headlines from Yahoo! News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


            Holy cow. You can't make this up.
            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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            • Topper
              Pre-Historic Man
              • Nov 2011
              • 11764

              #66
              Too bad we can't bulldoze them more quickly.
              "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

              Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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              • Blueintheface
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2009
                • 15382

                #67
                Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                This is evil on a breathtaking scale.

                The latest news and headlines from Yahoo! News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


                Holy cow. You can't make this up.
                That makes me sick. A different type of sick than the beheadings and other atrocities but still sickening.
                "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

                "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

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                • byu71
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 22070

                  #68
                  I think what to do with ISIS is a real tough call. I know people like Hannity thinks it is easy to come up with a strategy and it is all Obama's fault we don't have one.

                  I am not so sure though and don't envy Obama having to make the call.

                  I was surprised to see a poll said 62% of Americans support troops on the ground. However, does that mean trainers and spotters or combat troops?

                  What do you think Isis would have to do for the President to say, that's it, combat troops on the ground and we are going to wipe them out?

                  I would imagine if they did a major attack here in the U.S., that would be an event causing combat troops from the U.S. to get involved.

                  Comment

                  • Blueintheface
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 15382

                    #69
                    Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                    I think what to do with ISIS is a real tough call. I know people like Hannity thinks it is easy to come up with a strategy and it is all Obama's fault we don't have one.

                    I am not so sure though and don't envy Obama having to make the call.

                    I was surprised to see a poll said 62% of Americans support troops on the ground. However, does that mean trainers and spotters or combat troops?

                    What do you think Isis would have to do for the President to say, that's it, combat troops on the ground and we are going to wipe them out?

                    I would imagine if they did a major attack here in the U.S., that would be an event causing combat troops from the U.S. to get involved.
                    Their international call to arms will certainly lead to some home-grown terrorist attacks so it's a matter of "when" not "if". Who the President happens to be at the time will be a matter of circumstance I fear.
                    "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

                    "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

                    Comment

                    • Nakoma
                      Junior Member
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 571

                      #70
                      CENTCOM reported to have altered intelligence reports regarding ISIS to make it appear that Obama's efforts to degrade and destroy ISIS were successful.

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                      • Nakoma
                        Junior Member
                        • Sep 2013
                        • 571

                        #71
                        ISIS supporters make their presence known at Youngstown State University.

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                        • Clark Addison
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 10327

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Nakoma View Post
                          ISIS supporters make their presence known at Youngstown State University.

                          http://time.com/4125094/pro-isis-roc...te-university/
                          I would guess that the fact that the guys who did this limited their terrorism to painting rocks indicates that the limits of what they can do or want to do is paint rocks. If they were able or willing to blow up the administration building, they would have done that rather than defacing Spirit Rock.

                          Comment

                          • myboynoah
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 21719

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Clark Addison View Post
                            I would guess that the fact that the guys who did this limited their terrorism to painting rocks indicates that the limits of what they can do or want to do is paint rocks. If they were able or willing to blow up the administration building, they would have done that rather than defacing Spirit Rock.
                            Who is YSU's rival? Are they playing this week?
                            Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                            For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                            Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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                            • myboynoah
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 21719

                              #74
                              Iraqis think the U.S. is in cahoots with the Islamic State, and it is hurting the war

                              The perception plays into a widening rift within Iraq’s ruling Shiite elite over whether to pivot more toward Iran or the United States. Those pushing the allegations “want to create a narrative that Iran is our ally and the United States is our enemy, and this undermines Abadi, who is America’s ally,” Sowell said.

                              Iraqi government officials say they don’t believe the charges and point out that Abadi regularly pushes back against them. But Abadi’s own position has weakened in recent months. He is battling for his political survival against a variety of Shiite militia leaders whose power has been bolstered by the increasingly dominant role played on the battlefield by the militias, collectively known as Hashd al-Shaabi, or popular mobilization units.

                              Iraqi officials complain that their task is hampered by what is universally perceived as the lackluster U.S. response to the threat posed by the Islamic State.

                              “We don’t believe the Americans support Daesh,” said Naseer Nouri, spokesman for the Ministry of Defense, using the Arabic acronym for the Islamic State. “But it is true that most people are saying they do, and they are right to believe that the Americans should be doing much more than they are. It’s because America is so slow that most people believe they are supporting Daesh.”

                              . . . . .

                              The fighters there insist there have been no strikes by the Americans at all. “We’d be better off without them,” said 1st Lt. Murtada Fadl, who is serving with the Iraqi elite forces in Baiji. He said that the only air support had come from the Iraqi air force and that he wishes the government would ask the Russians to replace the Americans.

                              In a part of the world where outcomes are often confused with intentions and regional complexities enable conspiracy theories to thrive, the notion that the United States is colluding with the Islamic State holds a certain logic, according to Mustafa Alani, director of the Dubai-based Gulf Research Center. Most Arabs are too in awe of American might to believe that the United States is deliberately adopting a minimalist approach, he said.

                              “The reason is that the Americans aren’t doing the job people expect them to do,” he said. “Mosul was lost and the Americans did nothing. Syria was lost and the Americans did nothing. Paris is attacked and the Americans aren’t doing much. So people believe this is a deliberate policy. They can’t believe the American leadership fails to understand the developments in the region, and so the only other explanation is that this is part of a conspiracy.”

                              On the streets of Baghdad, most Iraqis see no other explanation.
                              You leave a vacuum and someone else will fill it, and once they hold that ground, they are able to direct the narrative.
                              Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                              For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                              Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                              Comment

                              • il Padrino Ute
                                Junior Member
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 19161

                                #75
                                Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                                Iraqis think the U.S. is in cahoots with the Islamic State, and it is hurting the war



                                You leave a vacuum and someone else will fill it, and once they hold that ground, they are able to direct the narrative.
                                Well, once Obama forces planet Earth to stop doing what the planet does by altering weather, he can turn his attentions to the lesser threat that is ISIS.
                                "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


                                "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

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