On abortion

[snowcat]

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[All-American]

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A joke, right?

[Jeff Lebowski]

A joke, right?

Yes. It is a satire account run by a comedian in the UK. Meant to satirize the woke movement.

[snowcat]

A joke, right?

Its a parody account.

[frank ryan]

i’m saying that abortion for any of the reasons on lines 1-6 of that chart are incomprehensibly evil

Number one could sure be helped if we had a decent social safety net, and before anyone chimes in, we really don't for this situation after the child is born.

Some of other reasons on the list are too general. Some women are so mentally ill or intellectually disadvantaged that it's not necessarily the same kind of selfish luxury choice. Lack of support is a big deal. That doesn't into that incomprehensible evil matrix, but rather it's more tragic.

Exploited, homeless, drug-addicted sex-workers who turn tricks for their next fix, not wanting to bring a child into the world is different than the entitled Park City housewife who doesn't want to carry a child because it will compromise her yoga body and vacation schedule are different things. That list doesn't distuingish that.

There should also be a number for women threatened/blackmailed/bribed/beaten into getting an abortion by selfish assholes. I suspect our glorious president for life has done something like this before.

[CardiacCoug]

i’m saying that abortion for any of the reasons on lines 1-6 of that chart are incomprehensibly evil

Yep the euphemisms around abortion are ridiculous: women have a right to “control their reproductive lives” etc.

I personally believe that abortion should be legal through first trimester without restriction because I don’t want the government to be an arbiter of whether or not there has been a rape or whether there is a significant health challenge. But let’s call it killing an unborn baby and throwing it in the garbage. SJBH.

[Northwestcoug]

Saw an old quote from Ursula LeGuin today:

They asked me to tell you what it was like to be twenty and pregnant in 1950 and when you tell your boyfriend you’re pregnant, he tells you about a friend of his in the army whose girl told him she was pregnant, so he got all his buddies to come and say, “We all f*cked her, so who knows who the father is?” And he laughs at the good joke….

What was it like, if you were planning to go to graduate school and get a degree and earn a living so you could support yourself and do the work you loved—what it was like to be a senior at Radcliffe and pregnant and if you bore this child, this child which the law demanded you bear and would then call “unlawful,” “illegitimate,” this child whose father denied it … What was it like? […]

It’s like this: if I had dropped out of college, thrown away my education, depended on my parents … if I had done all that, which is what the anti-abortion people want me to have done, I would have borne a child for them, … the authorities, the theorists, the fundamentalists; I would have born a child for them, their child.

But I would not have born my own first child, or second child, or third child. My children.

The life of that fetus would have prevented, would have aborted, three other fetuses … the three wanted children, the three I had with my husband—whom, if I had not aborted the unwanted one, I would never have met … I would have been an “unwed mother” of a three-year-old in California, without work, with half an education, living off her parents….

But it is the children I have to come back to, my children Elisabeth, Caroline, Theodore, my joy, my pride, my loves. If I had not broken the law and aborted that life nobody wanted, they would have been aborted by a cruel, bigoted, and senseless law. They would never have been born. This thought I cannot bear.

What was it like, in the Dark Ages when abortion was a crime, for the girl whose dad couldn’t borrow cash, as my dad could? What was it like for the girl who couldn’t even tell her dad, because he would go crazy with shame and rage? Who couldn’t tell her mother? Who had to go alone to that filthy room and put herself body and soul into the hands of a professional criminal? – because that is what every doctor who did an abortion was, whether he was an extortionist or an idealist.

Not so long ago, the mainstream retort against pro-choice people was that no one wanted to go back to the 50's or before; they just wanted sensible and ethical restrictions for abortion. But here we are, a handful of states that really want to return to illegal abortions.

[beefytee]

Question for the legal minds? When is incest not rape and why would it be considered (when it is not rape) justifiable in offering exclusion like rape?

[wapiti]

Saw an old quote from Ursula LeGuin today:



Not so long ago, the mainstream retort against pro-choice people was that no one wanted to go back to the 50's or before; they just wanted sensible and ethical restrictions for abortion. But here we are, a handful of states that really want to return to illegal abortions.

That quote is sickening.

[frank ryan]

That quote is sickening.

Your moral grandstanding is dumb.

Howard Stern suggested that Trump had probably paid for multiple abortions in his day. Why do I suspect if that came out, you’d ignore it?

[Northwestcoug]

That quote is sickening.

As a proponent of moral relativism, I completely respect your opinion. However, I suppose that people who find that quote sickening fail to see the complex moral decisions women make when deciding to have an abortion. If there is a moral high ground, it certainly isn't inhabited by those who cannot appreciate how complex that decision is.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Your moral grandstanding is dumb.

Howard Stern suggested that Trump had probably paid for multiple abortions in his day. Why do I suspect if that came out, you’d ignore it?

#whatabouttrump

You don't find the logic in that quote tortured at best?

[Northwestcoug]

#whatabouttrump

You don't find the logic in that quote tortured at best?

Your mistake is trying to understand logic in someone's personal decision laden with human emotion. It was her decision, and that is how she framed it. Not knowing anything about the era (and I suppose being a fan of her writing), I'll trust that emotional decision did have some logic to back it up.

[wapiti]

Your moral grandstanding is dumb.

Howard Stern suggested that Trump had probably paid for multiple abortions in his day. Why do I suspect if that came out, you’d ignore it?

I hate Donald Trump. I didn't vote for him. I won't vote him. For you to turn my heartfelt reaction to that awful quote into a Trump bash is ridiculous. If you read my post history, the only contexts in which I have defended Trump is the Russia investigation, which I still hold was a ridiculous witch hunt, and some of the other obviously political investigations (tax returns). I think now that the Mueller investigation is over, my position there has been sufficiently vindicated. You have a one-track mind. It's all Trump, all the time.

My post was not grandstanding. That post stirred real emotions in me that I did not even know I had.

[wapiti]

As a proponent of moral relativism, I completely respect your opinion. However, I suppose that people who find that quote sickening fail to see the complex moral decisions women make when deciding to have an abortion. If there is a moral high ground, it certainly isn't inhabited by those who cannot appreciate how complex that decision is.

I am one whose life has been intimately touched by adoption and by mothers who chose life. For this mother to repeatedly refer to the aborted child as the "unwanted one" while referring to the three named children as "my joy, my pride, my loves" literally made me sick and angry. The "unwanted one" should have a name and should also be a parent's joy, pride, and love. Maybe it's more complex than that. But that's my worldview.