On abortion

[imanihonjin]

Yes, except for medical professionals and legal minds who want have an intelligent discussion about the legality of abortion. Apologies.

Iman keeps asking for an important distinction between a baby and a fetus. I've told him multiple times that birth is the most important, significant, and hazardous single physiologic step outside of perhaps meiosis in the individual's life. Yet he keeps ignoring it, both in his terminology and in asking me repeatedly to provide same thing, meanwhile giving me a shrug off the shoulders when i ask for some better event to mark the beginning of rights. So... I give up.



Ok...sorry, I misread you.
This makes no more sense, but for completely different reasons. I'm off to father's and son's. I'll catch up tomorrow.

I know that you have said that there are important physiological differences....you have stated that a number of times, but never have you actually attempted to state what those differences are and more importantly, why those differences create a need to treat a baby post birth different that a "baby" in utero. I am happy to listen but so far your attempts to point out the meaningful differences have been less than stellar.

More importantly enjoy your son and father's and sons. Ours is in a couple of week and I dread having to go.

[imanihonjin]

So I am wondering....do you think a man ought to be able to disavow his paternal rights as a moral position in and of itself or are you stating that if abortion is a woman's choice and that what society has determined is best, then a man ought to be allowed the same freedom to disavow his paternal rights prior to the baby being born?

[Moliere]

So I am wondering....do you think a man ought to be able to disavow his paternal rights as a moral position in and of itself or are you stating that if abortion is a woman's choice and that what society has determined is best, then a man ought to be allowed the same freedom to disavow his paternal rights prior to the baby being born?

I'm saying the bolded part.

[TripletDaddy]

I'm saying the bolded part.

not just rights but responsibilities. your point was a financial disavowal, not one of relinquishing "rights."

[imanihonjin]

not just rights but responsibilities. your point was a financial disavowal, not one of relinquishing "rights."

Yep you are correct and Moliere and I are in agreement.

[Blueintheface]

I'm more confused than ever (not about my stand on abortion but about this argument).

[myboynoah]

This is pretty sick shit.

Men should worry about the future of Roe v. Wade, too

What we too seldom hear is that men should also tell their abortion stories. We need to hear from the man who was able to stay in college, the man who did not become a single parent to two daughters after his wife died during a complicated pregnancy, the man whose uninterrupted research while a graduate student yielded a lifesaving cancer treatment and the man whose family did not become homeless during a stretch of unemployment — all because their partners had access to safe and legal abortion. Mathematically speaking, millions of men have such stories. The one-in-four women who have had an abortion did not get pregnant on their own.

These stories are powerful. Yet we rarely hear these perspectives, and more rarely still do we hear calls for men to describe how abortion has affected them personally. This needs to change.

What the hell?!?!?

Aside from losing a spouse, she boils this down to economics and convenience. I have no doubt that the vast majority of abortions happen due to economic and convenience. "Thank goodness she killed that baby so that you could finish graduate school unburdened by parental responsibilities." Yes, let's rejoice and tell that powerful story.

And why should men get all ecstatic about a decision over which they have no control? Not saying they should. Just saying you might as well rejoice that you didn't get hit by a meteor this morning.

Bunch of sick assholes.

This is pretty simple. If you don't want a baby, don't dip your stick without protection. Or get fixed.

[Crockett]

This is pretty sick shit.

Men should worry about the future of Roe v. Wade, too



What the hell?!?!?

Aside from losing a spouse, she boils this down to economics and convenience. I have no doubt that the vast majority of abortions happen due to economic and convenience. "Thank goodness she killed that baby so that you could finish graduate school unburdened by parental responsibilities." Yes, let's rejoice and tell that powerful story.

And why should men get all ecstatic about a decision over which they have no control? Not saying they should. Just saying you might as well rejoice that you didn't get hit by a meteor this morning.

Bunch of sick assholes.

This is pretty simple. If you don't want a baby, don't dip your stick without protection. Or get fixed.

^^^This.

The left used to say "safe, legal, and rare" about abortions, but then the rare part implied there was something untoward about them. Now they have to embrace them as good and wonderful as they try to rationalize / whitewash away the awfulness of what they are actually doing.

Here's a very recent example of this Orwellian celebration of abortion:

Absolutely disgusting.

[old_gregg]

^^^This.

The left used to say "safe, legal, and rare" about abortions, but then the rare part implied there was something untoward about them. Now they have to embrace them as good and wonderful as they try to rationalize / whitewash away the awfulness of what they are actually doing.

Here's a very recent example of this Orwellian celebration of abortion:

Absolutely disgusting.

darn that monolithic left. too bad only trump voters are capable of nuance.

[MartyFunkhouser]

This is pretty sick shit.

Men should worry about the future of Roe v. Wade, too



What the hell?!?!?

Aside from losing a spouse, she boils this down to economics and convenience. I have no doubt that the vast majority of abortions happen due to economic and convenience. "Thank goodness she killed that baby so that you could finish graduate school unburdened by parental responsibilities." Yes, let's rejoice and tell that powerful story.

And why should men get all ecstatic about a decision over which they have no control? Not saying they should. Just saying you might as well rejoice that you didn't get hit by a meteor this morning.

Bunch of sick assholes.

This is pretty simple. If you don't want a baby, don't dip your stick without protection. Or get fixed.

Please tell me you also support cheap and easy access to birth control. If you don't, it is nothing more than moralizing without actually addressing the core issue.

If you want less abortions, follow Colorado's route and offer free IUDs.

[Crockett]

darn that monolithic left. too bad only trump voters are capable of nuance.

There are some pro-life democrats, but the party is certainly becoming more hostile to them and more dogmatic on this issue: DNC chair Tom Perez said all Democratic candidates must support a woman’s right to choose.

[MartyFunkhouser]

There are some pro-life democrats, but the party is certainly becoming more dogmatic on this issue: DNC chair Tom Perez said all Democratic candidates must support a woman’s right to choose.

It seems like you aren't allowing for a range of opinions among those that support abortion. For example, I support abortion but want policies in place to minimize the number of abortions that occur because of an unwanted pregnancy.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Man, I hate the pro-life/pro-choice labeling that's used with this issue. I'm both, btw.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Man, I hate the pro-life/pro-choice labeling that's used with this issue. I'm both, btw.

I'm right there with you. I hate that labeling. I also hated the support traditional marriage/support marriage equality labels.

[old_gregg]

Man, I hate the pro-life/pro-choice labeling that's used with this issue. I'm both, btw.

leftist scum!