On abortion

[byu71]

Does anyone know if Catholics baptize stillborn babies?

[All-American]

I think most pro-lifers would agree with the exceptions of the health of the mother and cases of rape.

Maybe they would, but that's ground I am willing to concede. In the instance of the health of the mother, I don't feel the need to have the state choose who lives and who dies. In the instance of rape, we can recognize that parenthood is an awesome responsibility. It is one thing to require a person to accept responsibility for the consequences of their choices; it is quite another to impose that responsibility upon one who did not make the choices that resulted in pregnancy.

[ERCougar]

I think most pro-lifers would agree with the exceptions of the health of the mother and cases of rape.

Yes, they would, because they don't really think about how complicated rape allegations are.

[Moliere]

I'm not criticizing cardiacs response. It's what the law is based on right now. I just think that in ten years, we'll have to rethink it.

It does offer a solution for that scenario (sort of...Who pays? ) but if we're claiming that any entity that is "viable" has a significant right to life, then what do we do with unused embryos from ivf, for example? Do we allow embryonic stem cell research....ever? Do we allow the use of birth control methods that don't prevent fertilization? Seems like a pretty wanton destruction of human life...

Whether you like it or not, some arbitrary line has to be drawn. That's policy. We can talk about a woman's right to her own body all you want but at the end of the day a woman loses that right at some point during the pregnancy (be it at the beginning or near the end before the cord is cut).

What's lost in all this debate is the father's responsibility. If the woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy, then I think a man should have the same theoretical right. By that I mean that if a woman is pregnant and decides to keep the baby, the man should have the right to disavow the child and therefore not have any financial or parental responsibility to the child. While I know many men already do this, but I think that as long as abortion by choice is legal so should a man's ability to abort the baby from his life.

While the abortion discussion centers around the woman's rights, it's unfair and unequal in how that is applied to men.

[TripletDaddy]

Whether you like it or not, some arbitrary line has to be drawn. That's policy. We can talk about a woman's right to her own body all you want but at the end of the day a woman loses that right at some point during the pregnancy (be it at the beginning or near the end before the cord is cut).

What's lost in all this debate is the father's responsibility. If the woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy, then I think a man should have the same theoretical right. By that I mean that if a woman is pregnant and decides to keep the baby, the man should have the right to disavow the child and therefore not have any financial or parental responsibility to the child. While I know many men already do this, but I think that as long as abortion by choice is legal so should a man's ability to abort the baby from his life.

While the abortion discussion centers around the woman's rights, it's unfair and unequal in how that is applied to men.

This post is incredibly confusing for imaninhonjin. It starts out like this and ends like this

[imanihonjin]

This post is incredibly confusing for imaninhonjin. It starts out like this and ends like this

See you are wrong....I agree with Moliere completely. Nice try though.

[TripletDaddy]

See you are wrong....I agree with Moliere completely. Nice try though.

You do? That seems inconcisistent with your prior morality play.

You agree that if a man wants to abort the baby but the woman doesn't, the man should be able to disavow the baby entirely?

[byu71]

Whether you like it or not, some arbitrary line has to be drawn. That's policy. We can talk about a woman's right to her own body all you want but at the end of the day a woman loses that right at some point during the pregnancy (be it at the beginning or near the end before the cord is cut).

What's lost in all this debate is the father's responsibility. If the woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy, then I think a man should have the same theoretical right. By that I mean that if a woman is pregnant and decides to keep the baby, the man should have the right to disavow the child and therefore not have any financial or parental responsibility to the child. While I know many men already do this, but I think that as long as abortion by choice is legal so should a man's ability to abort the baby from his life.

While the abortion discussion centers around the woman's rights, it's unfair and unequal in how that is applied to men.

Let's face it. There is no advocacy group for men's rights. Especially old, white, men. The idea is that they have had all the benefits and basically screwed everyone else.

It permeates society, even in our own club here in Utah. Although men get the Priesthood, women get the praise and the benefit of the doubt. In Utah you don't even have to tell the father you're pregnant (non-married) before you give the child up for adoption.

[ERCougar]

Let's face it. There is no advocacy group for men's rights. Especially old, white, men. The idea is that they have had all the benefits and basically screwed everyone else.

It permeates society, even in our own club here in Utah. Although men get the Priesthood, women get the praise and the benefit of the doubt. In Utah you don't even have to tell the father your pregnant before you give the child up for adoption.

This would be great if it were tic.

[All-American]

Let's face it. There is no advocacy group for men's rights. Especially old, white, men.

Sure there is: the US Senate.

[byu71]

Sure there is: the US Senate.

Maybe the house, but not the Senate. Harry Reid is the champion of blame the old, white, guy.

Sure it is hypocritical because he and actually they take care of themselves. I don't think they consider themselves old, white, men.

[imanihonjin]

You do? That seems inconcisistent with your prior morality play.

You agree that if a man wants to abort the baby but the woman doesn't, the man should be able to disavow the baby entirely?

If you policy starts with the mantra that paternity is optional for a woman, it seems inconsistent to allow a woman to opt of of paternity but not a man.

[TripletDaddy]

If you policy starts with the mantra that paternity is optional for a woman, it seems inconsistent to allow a woman to opt of of paternity but not a man.

That part doesn't seem inconsistent, it is inconsistent. By agreeing with Eddie jones completely you also agree that a husband wants to abort the baby but the wife disagrees, then he should be able to disavow the baby entirely. Again, I would be interested in your moral justification for that because it seems contrary to what you have been espousing.

[imanihonjin]

That part doesn't seem inconsistent, it is inconsistent. By agreeing with Eddie jones completely you also agree that a husband wants to abort the baby but the wife disagrees, then he should be able to disavow the baby entirely. Again, I would be interested in your moral justification for that because it seems contrary to what you have been espousing.

I am not advocating the position. However, I, and I am not sure, but I think Moliere would agree, that if you get to a point where an abortion is justifiable there is no justification for allowing a husband to disavow his parental obligations if he chooses to do so.

[ERCougar]

I am not advocating the position. However, I, and I am not sure, but I think Moliere would agree, that if you get to a point where an abortion is justifiable there is no justification for allowing a husband to disavow his parental obligations if he chooses to do so.

I have no idea what you're talking about.
My problem with abortion opponents is that they're telling a woman what she can do with her own body. Now you're saying I should be okay with a man telling her what to do with her own body.
Hmm