On abortion

[Northwestcoug]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

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This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

[Moliere]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

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This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

That is insanity. I doubt most of those will pass but the fact they are being openly discussed is troubling.

Im not sure why we can’t just meet in the middle and have something comparable to what our liberal Europeans friends have, which is the right to elective abortion for up to 15 weeks and then after that only in cases where the life of the child or mother is at stake. Seems reasonable and while I’d prefer even fewer abortions I’d be willing to support someone that voted for such a bill.

[falafel]

That is insanity. I doubt most of those will pass but the fact they are being openly discussed is troubling.

Im not sure why we can’t just meet in the middle and have something comparable to what our liberal Europeans friends have, which is the right to elective abortion for up to 15 weeks and then after that only in cases where the life of the child or mother is at stake. Seems reasonable and while I’d prefer even fewer abortions I’d be willing to support someone that voted for such a bill.

That's because our European friends are godless heathens and we are living with evangelical christians running the right.

[Applejack]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

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This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

Beware the wacky Maga states...

[MartyFunkhouser]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

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This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

I'm going to hope that this is just hyperbole and not really being discussed. For example, I can't find anything about Marsha Blackburn proposing a contraception ban.

Now of course Cocaine Mitch will be the hypocrite of all hypocrites and throw out an abortion ban.

[BigFatMeanie]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

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This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

So worth it.

(p.s. the histrionics on the left about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen remind me of the histrionics on the right about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen with gay marriage)

[Non Sequitur]

So worth it.

(p.s. the histrionics on the left about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen remind me of the histrionics on the right about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen with gay marriage)

I will bet you $1,000 on the spot that within a year after Roe being overturned there will be mainstream politicians on the right pursuing criminalization of the morning-after pill. Care to accept?

[Moliere]

I will bet you $1,000 on the spot that within a year after Roe being overturned there will be mainstream politicians on the right pursuing criminalization of the morning-after pill. Care to accept?

Does Ted Cruz qualify as mainstream?

Id definitely not take that bet. I don’t think such a bill could pass but that won’t stop the crazies on the right from pursuing it.

Just two years ago it was the left that was insanely puritanical. Now that momentum is swinging to the right.

[Northwestcoug]

More insanity:

[The Oklahoma Legislature gave final approval on Thursday to a bill that prohibits nearly all abortions starting at fertilization, which would make it the nation’s strictest abortion law.

The bill is modeled on one that took effect in Texas in September, which has relied on civilian instead of criminal enforcement to work around court challenges. But it goes further than the Texas law, which bans abortions after about six weeks of pregnancy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/u...abortions.html

Again, whatever excesses that came from Roe v. Wade pale in comparison to what we're witnessing now.

[BigFatMeanie]

More insanity:



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/u...abortions.html

Again, whatever excesses that came from Roe v. Wade pale in comparison to what we're witnessing now.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Millions upon millions of aborted babies as a matter of convenience are the excesses of that came from Roe v. Wade. While I think the Oklahoma bill (if characterized correctly by the article you linked, which I haven't read) is bad, I still don't think it is worse than millions than the excesses that came from Roe v. Wade.

[Northwestcoug]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Millions upon millions of aborted babies as a matter of convenience are the excesses of that came from Roe v. Wade. While I think the Oklahoma bill (if characterized correctly by the article you linked, which I haven't read) is bad, I still don't think it is worse than millions than the excesses that came from Roe v. Wade.

Agreed! (On the disagreement).

Just for the record, in my world view the vast majority of abortions are nowhere near next to murder, so they are solidly within the rights of the mother to decide whether or not she is willing to carry the pregnancy to term. Whatever we call conveniences it is still her right to decide what she does with her body.

I believe I have Boyd Packer's blessing on believing it isn't murder (don't make me go find that talk).

[BigFatMeanie]

Agreed! (On the disagreement).

Just for the record, in my world view the vast majority of abortions are nowhere near next to murder, so they are solidly within the rights of the mother to decide whether or not she is willing to carry the pregnancy to term. Whatever we call conveniences it is still her right to decide what she does with her body.

I believe I have Boyd Packer's blessing on believing it isn't murder (don't make me go find that talk).

I don't believe all abortion is murder, nor do I believe only "her body and her rights" are in question up until the point that the baby is completely out of the birth canal. I consider both of those positions to be extremist.

For the record, my position on abortion is as follows: I oppose abortion as a means of birth control. I believe abortion should be safe, legal under certain circumstances, and those circumstances should be relatively rare. Thus, I support exceptions for rape, incest, and when the life of the mother is in danger and think that positions which don't allow for these exceptions are extremist.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don't believe all abortion is murder, nor do I believe only "her body and her rights" are in question up until the point that the baby is completely out of the birth canal. I consider both of those positions to be extremist.

For the record, my position on abortion is as follows: I oppose abortion as a means of birth control. I believe abortion should be safe, legal under certain circumstances, and those circumstances should be relatively rare. Thus, I support exceptions for rape, incest, and when the life of the mother is in danger and think that positions which don't allow for these exceptions are extremist.

I appreciate you actually stating your position. This debate gets lost all the time in people screaming "baby murderers," "women haters," etc. It gets lost in the debate over when a embryo/fetus counts as a life, which to me is a red herring in this debate.

To me, the debate is this: how do we balance the rights of the mother against the rights of the embryo/fetus.

For me there are parts of pregnancy where the rights of the mother win. There are parts of the pregnancy when the embryo/fetus wins.

For me it all comes down to this, abortion without restrict in the first 12-16 weeks. Not sure on the cutoff line. Up to 20 weeks, it is still available if there is health and safety concerns, rape, and incest. After 20 weeks, it still is allowed for health and safety of the mother.

[Northwestcoug]

I appreciate you actually stating your position. This debate gets lost all the time in people screaming "baby murderers," "women haters," etc. It gets lost in the debate over when a embryo/fetus counts as a life, which to me is a red herring in this debate.

To me, the debate is this: how do we balance the rights of the mother against the rights of the embryo/fetus.

For me there are parts of pregnancy where the rights of the mother win. There are parts of the pregnancy when the embryo/fetus wins.

For me it all comes down to this, abortion without restrict in the first 12-16 weeks. Not sure on the cutoff line. Up to 20 weeks, it is still available if there is health and safety concerns, rape, and incest. After 20 weeks, it still is allowed for health and safety of the mother.

This is in my reasonableness spectrum. And like you, I'm not sure where to place cut-off lines. Society will never agree to anything hard and fast. But because of all that is unknowable, I'll still place trust in the decision making of the mother for most cases.

[BigFatMeanie]

I appreciate you actually stating your position. This debate gets lost all the time in people screaming "baby murderers," "women haters," etc. It gets lost in the debate over when a embryo/fetus counts as a life, which to me is a red herring in this debate.

To me, the debate is this: how do we balance the rights of the mother against the rights of the embryo/fetus.

For me there are parts of pregnancy where the rights of the mother win. There are parts of the pregnancy when the embryo/fetus wins.

For me it all comes down to this, abortion without restrict in the first 12-16 weeks. Not sure on the cutoff line. Up to 20 weeks, it is still available if there is health and safety concerns, rape, and incest. After 20 weeks, it still is allowed for health and safety of the mother.

Your proposal is eminently reasonable. Sure, politicians and activists could quibble about where the cutoff lines are drawn but your proposal is ultimately a practical solution that only extremists on both sides would oppose. Where can I contribute to the Funk for President 2024 campaign?

I could also state my position on gay marriage (both in general and in the context of TCOJCOLDS ), transkids/transadults, immigration, critical race theory, racism in general, universal basic income, student loan forgiveness, homelessness, and any number of oft-debated topics.

Unfortunately, I expect I would receive significant backlash because of some of those positions, including from you when the position touches one of your hot buttons (e.g. LGBTQIA+). I'm not afraid to "own" my positions, but it's mostly not worth the hassle of stating them in a pseudonymous forum, even a forum that is a relatively "safe space" such as this one. I find it interesting that my position on abortion is probably one of the least likely to generate backlash from average non-activist folks.