Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Richard Posner wrote a column and tried to distinguish between gay marriage and polygamy from the rationale under which the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage. Posner seems like he's beginning to lose his marbles. I didn't find his argument reassuring that they won't legalize polygamy.

That doesn't mean that the Supremes won't find some basis for denying it is another fundamental right, I think they will, at least in really hope.

I'll add something to what Katy is saying. While it seems unthinkable that too many women will run off with another married dude and that man's wife will want to remain married, it's also kind of unthinkable to me that women marry men that are 20+ years older than them. Rarely do the men in those situations have merely modest means. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but there are certainly some women that marry and stay married to men that are either much older than them or who are shitty husbands. One is running for president. Another man who is married to a significantly younger woman is also running for President (supposedly).

Both genders marry people for superficial reasons. Men marry trophy wives that are messes intellectually and emotionally.

[wally]

Richard Posner wrote a column and tried to distinguish between gay marriage and polygamy from the rationale under which the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage. Posner seems like he's beginning to lose his marbles. I didn't find his argument reassuring that they won't legalize polygamy.

Great, here comes the polygamy PR machine to campaign over the next 5-10 years until public opinion changes enough to sway the SCOTUS in a landmark case. Watch for hollywood to start glamorizing polygamy very, very soon, and watch all the closeted polygamists courageously and publicly come out into the light to be accepted for who they are. They were born this way.

You guys are crazy.

[SeattleUte]

I'm opposed to legalizing polygamy. I would prefer that we stick to traditional marriage as the law defines it, between a man and woman or between couples of the same sex. I'm old fashioned that way.

Applesauce!

[scottie]

Richard Posner wrote a column and tried to distinguish between gay marriage and polygamy from the rationale under which the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage. Posner seems like he's beginning to lose his marbles. I didn't find his argument reassuring that they won't legalize polygamy.

That doesn't mean that the Supremes won't find some basis for denying it is another fundamental right, I think they will, at least in really hope.

I'll add something to what Katy is saying. While it seems unthinkable that too many women will run off with another married dude and that man's wife will want to remain married, it's also kind of unthinkable to me that women marry men that are 20+ years older than them. Rarely do the men in those situations have merely modest means. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but there are certainly some women that marry and stay married to men that are either much older than them or who are shitty husbands. One is running for president. Another man who is married to a significantly younger woman is also running for President (supposedly).

Both genders marry people for superficial reasons. Men marry trophy wives that are messes intellectually and emotionally.

Does anyone think that polygamy has enough of a national significance that the Supreme Court would even accept a case that relates to it?

[byu71]

Does anyone think that polygamy has enough of a national significance that the Supreme Court would even accept a case that relates to it?

I really doubt it. I can't think of any churches per se that believe in polygamy except off shoots of the mormon church. I think their numbers are small and they are perceived as weirdo's. I have seen some really sharp polygamists interviewed, but they seem to be on their own.

I think Islam or some form of Islam believes in polygamy. If they started asking for it, it would probably happen quite rapidly.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Does anyone think that polygamy has enough of a national significance that the Supreme Court would even accept a case that relates to it?

Yeah, Reynolds v. United States.

Somehow the approval for polygamy has gone from 7% in 2001 to 16% now. I can't begin to understand how close to 1 in 6 are on board with polygamy. If it somehow were to gain some countercultural credibility, especially by employing Katy's reasoning that it could actually empower women, then I could see it getting into the 30s or even 40s.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

If you want to know how effective the gay PR machine has been, look no further than that Gallup survey where they asked people what percentage of the population they though was gay. The answer was around 25%.

The government's statistics on this is that 3% of the population is gay or bisexual, with 1.6% being only gay and not bisexual.

I'm not sure what percentage of the gay population wishes to get married, I'm not even sure what that is for the heterosexual population. But we're probably talking about this really only affecting 1 in a 100 people, maybe 2 in a 100.

The practical affect of basically every TV show from the past 5-10 years featuring a gay couple (with, of course, the strongest and healthiest relationship of anyone on the show), is that everyone immensely overestimates the number of people affected by the gay marriage debate.

[byu71]

If you want to know how effective the gay PR machine has been, look no further than that Gallup survey where they asked people what percentage of the population they though was gay. The answer was around 25%.

The government's statistics on this is that 3% of the population is gay or bisexual, with 1.6% being only gay and not bisexual.

I'm not sure what percentage of the gay population wishes to get married, I'm not even sure what that is for the heterosexual population. But we're probably talking about this really only affecting 1 in a 100 people, maybe 2 in a 100.

The practical affect of basically every TV show from the past 5-10 years featuring a gay couple (with, of course, the strongest and healthiest relationship of anyone on the show), is that everyone immensely overestimates the number of people affected by the gay marriage debate.

If you get those that control the airways on your side, you have a great shot at getting your agenda accomplished. You get bombarded into submission.

That is why the dems and media are so strong on getting corporations and individuals with big money out of the political donation business. Can you imagine the power the media both news and entertainment would have?

[Commando]

Anecdotal- I have a cousin involved in a polygamist marriage. Not a mormon-style one, either, btw. More of a super hippie arrangement. Her husband posted "Today We Celebrate the Right to Love Anyone We Want. Tomorrow, We Shall Fight for the Right to Love More than One!" The vibe is out there- let's kick this marriage shit into overdrive! :rockon2:

[Flystripper]

I don't know what the accurate percentage is. It is obviously less than 25%, but I do think it is quite a bit higher than the 1.6% as reported by the government. I don't think the media is the reason for my perception. The reason for my perception is based on my anecdotal experience. I probably have about 10,000 acquaintances in my life. Of those people I am acquainted with, more than 500 are gay, lesbian or bisexual. Obviously my population sample is not random, but it seems significant, and it isn't significant due to Will and Grace.

[Northwestcoug]

In our office of about 25 people, at least 3 are gay/lesbian. Of course my sample is truly representative of the population in general, so the government is way out of touch with their estimate!

[Uncle Ted]

If you want to know how effective the gay PR machine has been, look no further than that Gallup survey where they asked people what percentage of the population they though was gay. The answer was around 25%.

The government's statistics on this is that 3% of the population is gay or bisexual, with 1.6% being only gay and not bisexual.

I'm not sure what percentage of the gay population wishes to get married, I'm not even sure what that is for the heterosexual population. But we're probably talking about this really only affecting 1 in a 100 people, maybe 2 in a 100.

The practical affect of basically every TV show from the past 5-10 years featuring a gay couple (with, of course, the strongest and healthiest relationship of anyone on the show), is that everyone immensely overestimates the number of people affected by the gay marriage debate.

Wow. Maybe when the gay PR machine gets behind gay/lesbian polygamy then things will happen with other forms of marriage...

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I don't know what the accurate percentage is. It is obviously less than 25%, but I do think it is quite a bit higher than the 1.6% as reported by the government. I don't think the media is the reason for my perception. The reason for my perception is based on my anecdotal experience. I probably have about 10,000 acquaintances in my life. Of those people I am acquainted with, more than 500 are gay, lesbian or bisexual. Obviously my population sample is not random, but it seems significant, and it isn't significant due to Will and Grace.

That's 5% vs. 3%. And there are enormous differences depending on what region of the country you're in. There's a pretty good likelihood that PaloAlto could say well over 5% of his acquaintances in the Bay Area are gay.

My anecdotal evidence says the government statistics are correct.

[Shaka]

I've long oft said this to leches who think that multiple wives means more power to the male. It's not going to be your average relief society sister having to take in a younger wife, it's more like relief society sisters will be abandoning their husbands in droves. It's Steve Young = 2,300 wives, Average Joe = 0 wives.

What do you tell your wife when in the heat of an argument, she declares, "I'm going to leave your underperforming ass and take up with the stake president, and I can do it righteously and morally and be celebrated for my spirituality."

The crux is not so much the multiple wives; it's that a woman can leave her husband at the drop of a hat for a polygamous relationship. Permission to divorce. Permission to leave. At least she's doing you the favor of divorcing you before taking up with somebody better; that has not been the case historically. And with polygyny legal, she wont have to divorce you- she can just go remarry someone else. Men will lose all control over their women, because with polygyny, a marriage certificate means nothing.

This guy hogging all the chicks is the reason I'm not married. Mammon's version of Steve Young.
hef.jpg

[Katy Lied]

Men marry trophy wives that are messes intellectually and emotionally.

This is the beauty of polygamy. Man can have his trophy wife, and also a super intellectual wife and also a sporty and arty wife. Ugly women who are super smart will find a landing place somewhere. Crafty women and spiritual women and tomboys too. Having one wife will seem old fashioned, like back in the old days where you deposited your capital investments, retirement, insurance, savings and checking all in one bank account. You can even marry some male farmhands to do the work in the south 40 without pesky employment contracts. Women can do the same. Just marry all of your work subordinates in your business, and then divorce them when they get too expensive. We don't need no stinking contracts. The marriage contract will be the quick and dirty way to complete any transaction. Ronald Coase is spinning in his grave wheeee!



too much?