Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[CardiacCoug]

3. Of course it is worth $2m to defend if that's what it costs. We are talking about defending the constitution here.

Yes defending the constitution means we don't let gay people get married.

Are you for real?

[imanihonjin]

We have an immense federal judiciary, with an expansive set of perspectives, and a lot of diversity, a maverick who doesn't apply the rule of law will be overruled ad infinitum.

If you are saying, that none of the judges after impartially evaluating the facts as proven by counsel, had a gut reaction as to how they wanted to decide the case, then you did not understand or they did not disclose it.

It's a false notion that a judge simply evaluates facts and then blindly applies the law. There are times where the proof of facts will dictate a result in many cases, but we're not discussing one of those cases.

It's the middle ground cases where the predelections of the judge can determine the outcome. Most of my experience shows me many good judges try to judge the facts impartially. However, once they determine the facts, they apply the law based upon their preferences within certain parameters of interpretation.

"Scary"? Judicial review is what it is. It's a human endeavor not one by computers or machines. It adds the human element. I am sometimes surprised or disappointed by a decision and disagree with the result made, but realize politics, preferences and life differences often dictate judicial decisions.

So tell me.....with all of your wisdom...how many cases have you discussed in a closed chamber with the deciding judge, one on one?

[Jacob]

We are actually just talking about your homophobia here.

Yes defending the constitution means we don't let gay people get married.

Are you for real?

You two are not this stupid. I know it!



PS Perhaps I misunderstand Cardiac. Are you unaware that the issue at stake is whether the Utah Constitution (and the statutes and constitutions of 36 other states) is pre-empted by the US Constitution in regards to SSM? If so, I appologize. You are merely ignorant of the issue and I'm happy to educate you.

[TripletDaddy]

You two are not this stupid. I know it!

I am not talking about what you are pretending to care about. I am talking about what you are actually talking about.

When did you become such a champion of Utah's state constitution? If I did a search of your post history would I come across other state constitutional issues that you have previously discussed? I honestly don't know.

[old_gregg]

You two are not this stupid. I know it!

is this your favorite lead in to an argument? you sure drop it a lot

[Topper]

So tell me.....with all of your wisdom...how many cases have you discussed in a closed chamber with the deciding judge, one on one?

I served a two year clerkship, and did for each case. As to whether I've discussed cases with deciding judges before or after? I have also sat as a master and judges will discuss cases with me in that capacity for several years now.

[Jacob]

I am not talking about what you are pretending to care about. I am talking about what you are actually talking about.

When did you become such a champion of Utah's state constitution? If I did a search of your post history would I come across other state constitutional issues that you have previously discussed? I honestly don't know.

Your psychic powers are very impressive.

[Jacob]

is this your favorite lead in to an argument? you sure drop it a lot

People sure do say a lot of stupid stuff around here. So do I.

[Pheidippides]

I am not talking about what you are pretending to care about. I am talking about what you are actually talking about.

When did you become such a champion of Utah's state constitution? If I did a search of your post history would I come across other state constitutional issues that you have previously discussed? I honestly don't know.

Probably at the same time he became a measured and genteel debater.

[San Juan Sun]

LOL @ Jacob fighting gay marriage on the cheap.

[imanihonjin]

I served a two year clerkship, and did for each case. As to whether I've discussed cases with deciding judges before or after? I have also sat as a master and judges will discuss cases with me in that capacity for several years now.

Your view and experience with a judge's approach is very different than mine. Was your clerkship a federal or state clerkship?

[Jacob]

You people sure define "debate" and "argument" in a way that is foreign to me. In the current case, I raised a new topic of the cost of the defense of the Utah constitutional amendment in federal court and whether it was worth it. I thought it of general interest, so I posted along with a few quick thoughts on the topic. The response was 1: use of a hostile epithet by DDD and 2: mockery by Cardiac. I respond in kind by merely pointing out their ignorance, and yet it is I who does not argue well. Who does not have a "measured and genteel" approach to debate. Interesting. If only I was aware we were engaged in argumentation and debate I would have been more genteel!

[CardiacCoug]

You two are not this stupid. I know it!



PS Perhaps I misunderstand Cardiac. Are you unaware that the issue at stake is whether the Utah Constitution (and the statutes and constitutions of 36 other states) is pre-empted by the US Constitution in regards to SSM? If so, I appologize. You are merely ignorant of the issue and I'm happy to educate you.

So by "defending the constitution" you mean spending $2 million for Utah's right to keep bigotry enshrined in its constitution for 5-10 more years at the most. Got it.

[Topper]

Your view and experience with a judge's approach is very different than mine. Was your clerkship a federal or state clerkship?

Mine was federal, but I now work with members of the state judiciary. My friends sit on both state and federal benches. My judge educated me as to his view, as he had been appointed in 1963, having passed his bar in 1934 (Yes he's deceased). I have never heard a single judge admitting to the mechanical approach you describe, except in law school or public settings where it sounds good. I have friends in the judiciary in two different states. Admittedly, there are people with broader and deeper experience, but mine is not without some familiarity with the process.

[Jacob]

So by "defending the constitution" you mean spending $2 million for Utah's right to keep bigotry enshrined in its constitution for 5-10 more years at the most. Got it.

Nope. Still not getting it.