Endgame is Here: Republicans are Breaking

[The_Douger]

Yes. The law passed. Do your job and fund it. You want to repeal the law, go ahead use the normal legislative process. This is like a brat on the playground taking his ball and running off the field when he is losing the game.

What if the ball is flat and nobody is able to pump it up in time to be able to play?

[smokymountainrain]

The House passed a CR to fund everything but Obamacare. Reid wouldn't even allow a vote on it in the Senate and Obama said he would not negotiate with Republicans. And you two seem to be saying the Republicans are responsible for the shutdown?

Yes. The law passed. Do your job and fund it. You want to repeal the law, go ahead use the normal legislative process. This is like a brat on the playground taking his ball and running off the field when he is losing the game.

IOW, both the dems and the GOP are to blame for the shutdown, right?

[TripletDaddy]

The House passed a CR to fund everything but Obamacare. Reid wouldn't even allow a vote on it in the Senate and Obama said he would not negotiate with Republicans. And you two seem to be saying the Republicans are responsible for the shutdown?

I'm not saying it, the bathroom doors at Cascade Springs are saying it. When little children have to go to the bathroom but are denied, don't act surprised if they blame the party that controls the House of Representatives.

[lambdacoug]

IOW, both the dems and the GOP are to blame for the shutdown, right?

Who gives a shit? Can we just get people back to work and figure stuff out like adults?

[smokymountainrain]

Who gives a shit? Can we just get people back to work and figure stuff out like adults?

That's sort of my point. There is a lot of finger pointing by biased people from both sides on this board, my facebook, the street, in D.C., etc, but the reality seems to be that both sides are at fault and if the finger pointing can stop, we could find a resolution.

[Jeff Lebowski]

IOW, both the dems and the GOP are to blame for the shutdown, right?

Apples and oranges.

Mike Lee is a nutjob. I have been getting his e-mail updates during this entire mess. The guy is delusional.

[calicoug]

That's sort of my point. There is a lot of finger pointing by biased people from both sides on this board, my facebook, the street, in D.C., etc, but the reality seems to be that both sides are at fault and if the finger pointing can stop, we could find a resolution.

Both sides are at fault for the government being dysfunctional. We can agree on that.

One side is at fault for actually forcing the government to close as their response (escalation) of the dysfunction. That's the Republicans. One side is at fault for threatening to breach the debt ceiling. That's Republicans.

They didn't get their way on Obamacare. So they tried to win through elections. They lost the elections. So they tried to win through the courts. They lost in the courts. So they tried winning at a state level. They (mostly) failed at the state level, so now they are shutting down the government and threatening debt default.

That's all on them. They clearly don't like the law. We all get that. What they don't understand is that the solution is to win elections. If Obamacare is really as bad as they claim, it shouldn't be hard for them to let it fail and then swoop in for election victory. The fact that they don't ever want to even get to that point is quite telling- it strongly suggests they don't view the odds of failure nearly as high as they pretend.

[Surfah]

The Economist summed up many of my feelings on all this nonsense in its latest edition:

http://www.economist.com/news/leader...ay-run-country

An excerpt to whet your appetite to read the rest of a very good editorial about our current mess:

"What can be done? In the short term, House Republicans need to get their priorities straight. They should pass a clean budget resolution without trying to refight old battles over Obamacare. They should also vote to raise the debt ceiling (or better yet, abolish it). If Obamacare really does turn out to be a flop and Republicans win the presidency and the Senate in 2016, they can repeal it through the normal legislative process.

In the longer term, America needs to tackle polarisation. The problem is especially acute in the House, because many states let politicians draw their own electoral maps. Unsurprisingly, they tend to draw ultra-safe districts for themselves. This means that a typical congressman has no fear of losing a general election but is terrified of a primary challenge. Many therefore pander to extremists on their own side rather than forging sensible centrist deals with the other. This is no way to run a country. Electoral reforms, such as letting independent commissions draw district boundaries, would not suddenly make America governable, but they would help. It is time for less cliff-hanging, and more common sense."

At first glance I thought you wrote this and was upset for even reading it because I agree with everything it says.

[lambdacoug]

That's sort of my point. There is a lot of finger pointing by biased people from both sides on this board, my facebook, the street, in D.C., etc, but the reality seems to be that both sides are at fault and if the finger pointing can stop, we could find a resolution.

Yeah, I know. It is disheartening to see how much finger pointing is going on. Who cares who did what? The fact is that the government is shutdown and that is not good for anyone. People not working and getting paid, research ruined, etc... all because a bunch of grown men cannot make a compromise and would rather point fingers and say "But they started it!". So ridiculous!

[calicoug]

At first glance I thought you wrote this and was upset for even reading it because I agree with everything it says.

It's clear by now (or should be) that the debt ceiling has worn out its welcome. It needs to be abolished. Sadly, we can't trust our leaders with an economic bomb like that in their possession.

[Omaha 680]

It's clear by now (or should be) that the debt ceiling has worn out its welcome. It needs to be abolished. Sadly, we can't trust our leaders with an economic bomb like that in their possession.

Absolutely not. The only thing worse than the dysfunction we see now would be a permanent blank check for these clowns.

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[Uncle Ted]

It's clear by now (or should be) that the debt ceiling has worn out its welcome. It needs to be abolished. Sadly, we can't trust our leaders with an economic bomb like that in their possession.

But Obama said...

Obama-on-Debt-Ceiling.jpg

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...ng_speech.html

[Jacob]

Don't conservatives already claim that this has happened at the state level (not "federalist" v "nationalist" per se, but red v blue)? And haven't businesses and people overwhelmingly already settled in blue states? Not sure I get your point. Businesses go where people go. People go to the coasts. The coasts are largely blue states. So...

No.

[VirginiaCougar]

At first glance I thought you wrote this and was upset for even reading it because I agree with everything it says.

Well, even though I didn't write it, you are acknowledging that we agree. That may be painful enough...

[calicoug]

But Obama said...

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http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...ng_speech.html

And McConnell has said it doesn't make sense to shut down the government for leverage.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...tml?1381350839

Newsflash: politicians say things that are politically expedient. Until the last debt ceiling fight, however, the debt ceiling vote has never been in doubt. That left politicians with lots of room to grandstand with no fear of creating any harm. This time Republicans are seriously threatening harm. It's a totally different ballgame.