Modesty...what does it mean?

[KillerDog]

My wife and I have a daughter on the way and her pending birth has started me thinking about something I've never thought of before. The Church and common sense tell me that it is good for young women to be modest. Hormones and a desire for eye-candy tell me that it is good for a young woman to wear as little as she likes. In the past, I have had no input into what any women wear but now I will have a little daughter and I have to figure out how or if I should use my influence regarding her clothing choices. The thought process has taken me down a road defining modesty.

I've noticed, as anyone who is paying attention will notice, that the standards of modesty fluctuate. Using the previous generations standard for modesty does not make sense. Thus, each generation defines what is titilating or modest in their own generation. As a result, I don't buy into the concept that the Church's FTSoY pamphlet has anything of value to offer on the topic of modesty.

I've also noticed that different regions have different standards of modesty. What is an appropriate bathing suit which won't raise eyebrows differs from Rio to LA to Murray. Taking the standards from one place and putting them in another doesn't make any sense either.

So, is modesty relative? Does it change based on time and location? How can you help your daughter not to be humiliated by dressing like an FLDS cow or objectified by dressing like a starlet on Cinemax. I need people to give feed back so I can improve my thought process on this.

[beelzebabette]

I know you're the quintessential Internet troll, but... My two cents would be to pretty much stay out of influencing her clothing choices unless there's an egregiously bad decision. It's hard enough to be a teenage girl without trying to satisfy parents and peers. Before then, who cares if a six-year-old wears a sleeve-less shirt? She'll figure it out on her own as she passes through the gauntlet of adolescence.

Educate her on peers, boys, etc., but leave the modesty decisions to her. If she's uncomfortable in an outfit, it'll find its way to the back of the closet quickly. If a parent outlaws an outfit, it'll be hidden at the bottom of a school bag just as quickly.

[The_Tick]

I agree with you BBB, but I don't.

If you let a daughter wear a two piece bathing suit as a toddler and as a kid, you can't tell them not to as an teenager. They are pretty quick with the hypocrite card.

Same goes in our house with clothing.

Tank tops have to pass the 2 finger rule (straps have to be as wide as two of dads fingers.)

One piece bathing suits.

Skirts have to reach the knees.

That really is about it.

My daughter isn't into advertising her goods. She doesn't really wear anything that shows cleavage, and she always makes sure that her clothes (tops and bottoms) touch.

My wife is pretty much the same way.

[I.J. Reilly]

A couple of thoughts here:

1. FLDS cow? C'mon. I'm not here to defend the belief of the FLDS but by using this type of language I think you might instill something more insidious in your daugther than immodest clothing could ever be.

2. Onto your main point. To me, modesty has as much to do with a state of mind as any actual clothing that is put on. Modesty extends beyond clothing and reaches into how someone thinks and acts in their day to day life. Ostensible displays of wealth are not modest, imo.

3. As far as clothing goes, the intent should not be to titillate or otherwise objectify the body. Pick your clothing as you see fit along these guidelines and you should be alright.

[Indy Coug]

They should just Clockwork Orange all of us male degenerates so girls can just be free to be.

[KillerDog]

I know you're the quintessential Internet troll, but... My two cents would be to pretty much stay out of influencing her clothing choices unless there's an egregiously bad decision. It's hard enough to be a teenage girl without trying to satisfy parents and peers. Before then, who cares if a six-year-old wears a sleeve-less shirt? She'll figure it out on her own as she passes through the gauntlet of adolescence.

Educate her on peers, boys, etc., but leave the modesty decisions to her. If she's uncomfortable in an outfit, it'll find its way to the back of the closet quickly. If a parent outlaws an outfit, it'll be hidden at the bottom of a school bag just as quickly.

I tend toward that line of thinking. I'm not sure I want to forbid any clothing. The tendency will be to base my opinion in my generation and that doesn't make sense. Having coached HS girls, I know that it is very easy for a parent to make a girl feel badly about herself and hard to fix it after you do. I want to steer clear of those pitfalls.

[KillerDog]

I agree with you BBB, but I don't.

If you let a daughter wear a two piece bathing suit as a toddler and as a kid, you can't tell them not to as an teenager. They are pretty quick with the hypocrite card.

Same goes in our house with clothing.

Tank tops have to pass the 2 finger rule (straps have to be as wide as two of dads fingers.)

One piece bathing suits.

Skirts have to reach the knees.

That really is about it.

My daughter isn't into advertising her goods. She doesn't really wear anything that shows cleavage, and she always makes sure that her clothes (tops and bottoms) touch.

My wife is pretty much the same way.

I'm not tending toward those types of (I believe) arbitrary rules. Tanks have to pass the "two finger rule" how does that make them universally modest? Once piece bathing suits? Doesn't make sense to me as a rule. Your rules seem to have been derived from some era and location and are therefore not going to be flexible enough for me.

[il Padrino Ute]

In my own case - having a 16 year old daughter - when she was a baby and toddler, my thoughts of what I could do to protect her from being taken advantage of by teenage boys when she became a teen were that I would make sure that:

• each teenaged boy that came into my home would get to see my gun collection with a detailed explanation of what a slug from each gun would do to a human body, particularly the groin area

• I would be in charge of purchasing her wardrobe so as to not tempt teenage boys

• I would make the itinerary for any and all dates that she might on

My wife and I would argue about this and I would remind her that I was once a teenage boy and she wasn't, so I was qualified to make those decisions.

As she got older and we would talk to her about things like modesty, it turned out that she was capable of good judgment. She has a rather extensive wardrobe and to be honest, I don't object to anything in her closet. I learned to trust her and she in turn demonstrated that she deserved my trust.

Of course, I will still give my input if I think she has purchased something that I know will kick the hormone floodgates of a high school boy - because quite frankly, there do needs to be some sort of limit as to how much is revealed because my wife and I are the parents - but teaching her what our definition of modesty is has given her an idea as to what she feels comfortable wearing and by today's standards, she has chosen to dress in a way that shows she's a girl, but not in a way that says she's up for anything.

[TripletDaddy]

I know my thoughts on this changed once we had our 2 little girls.

There is something about a daddy having a little girl. Man, that one really changes your views on things. You have this instinct to protect her from EVERYTHING. I think the biggest challenge is to be overbearing on your desires to protect her.

I think I will lean towards the conservative side of the scale with my daughters. Fortunately, my wife wears cool clothes but stays garment-friendly, so I have a feeling the girls will be shaped by her style somewhat. I won't hesitate to make my feelings known if they start showing too much skin.

Now, if you ask me what I want my daughters' teenage FRIENDS to wear while visiting our home..........

[il Padrino Ute]

Now, if you ask me what I want my daughters' teenage FRIENDS to wear while visiting our home..........

I say we start calling you Lester Burnham.

[Clark Addison]

In my own case - having a 16 year old daughter - when she was a baby and toddler, my thoughts of what I could do to protect her from being taken advantage of by teenage boys when she became a teen were that I would make sure that:

• each teenaged boy that came into my home would get to see my gun collection with a detailed explanation of what a slug from each gun would do to a human body, particularly the groin area

• I would be in charge of purchasing her wardrobe so as to not tempt teenage boys

• I would make the itinerary for any and all dates that she might on

My wife and I would argue about this and I would remind her that I was once a teenage boy and she wasn't, so I was qualified to make those decisions.

I used to be in ward with a guy who at the time was in his 50s and had gone through a few teenage daughters. Nicest guy in the world, but also a very tough guy. The young Men in the ward told me that he used to bring kids into his living room on their first date with a daughter of his and sit them down. He'd sit them down, glare at them, and say something like:

"Young man. I was in Vietnam. I killed people I never saw and didn't know. What do you think I'd do to someone who hurt one of my daughters?"

[UtahDan]

I know my thoughts on this changed once we had our 2 little girls.

There is something about a daddy having a little girl. Man, that one really changes your views on things. You have this instinct to protect her from EVERYTHING. I think the biggest challenge is to be overbearing on your desires to protect her.

Isn't it interesting how there is now a whole universe of things that once only provoked a "huh, that is interesting" that now provoke the desire to maim or kill? I'm only half kidding, maybe not even half.

[marsupial]

I know my thoughts on this changed once we had our 2 little girls.

There is something about a daddy having a little girl. Man, that one really changes your views on things. You have this instinct to protect her from EVERYTHING. I think the biggest challenge is to be overbearing on your desires to protect her.

I think I will lean towards the conservative side of the scale with my daughters. Fortunately, my wife wears cool clothes but stays garment-friendly, so I have a feeling the girls will be shaped by her style somewhat. I won't hesitate to make my feelings known if they start showing too much skin.

Now, if you ask me what I want my daughters' teenage FRIENDS to wear while visiting our home..........

I don't doubt that your wife is well-dressed, but don't kid yourself into thinking that your daughters will think she is and want to mimic her style.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I think I will lean towards the conservative side of the scale with my daughters. Fortunately, my wife wears cool clothes but stays garment-friendly, so I have a feeling the girls will be shaped by her style somewhat.

I think this is the key. Thinking back on my high school experience, the girls that could afford nice clothes didn't resort to wearing slutty clothes. If a teenage girl has a choice between cheap, unfashionable clothing and cheap provocative clothing that will get her noticed, then it's easy to see why a number of them would choose the immodest clothing. However, if they have the choice between fashionable (and at times expensive) clothes and the cheaper provocative clothes, then they're going to choose the fashionable clothes.

When we found out we were going to have a girl, I brought up this topic with my wife. We're going to try to strike a balance between not giving our daughter everything in regards to clothing so we don't spoil her, while also enabling her to wear very nice and fashionable clothing so she never feels the need to wear something skimpy. I guess we'll have some kind of 2-1, 3-1, or even 4-1 matching principle where she earns a certain amount of money and we match money that she makes so she can buy nice clothes.

My wife has a mom that has some crazy ass taste (okay, it's not very good). She's kept herself in very good shape for her age, and she tries to keep up with the trends and fails miserably (case in point- she tries to wear a lot of Ed Hardy gear- ugh). Although her parents are fairly well off now, they weren't while she was growing up (partly a function of her parents having five kids before either of them reached the age of 30). While shopping with my wife, I'm repeatedly suprised at just how crappy the quality is in a lot of women's clothing at some mall clothing stores. My wife would often come home and tell me something like "I can't believe how cheap this was" and proceed to tell me how she bought _ number of shirts/shoes because of the price. Over the past year, I've made a concerted effort to encourage my wife to buy quality and not quantity. Sure, look for a good deal at Nordstrom's Rack or TJ Maxx or whatever, but just make sure it's quality and something you really want- just don't buy based on price. Items bought in the past that were more expensive that I encouraged her to buy have invariably been worn more and lasted longer than the cheap stuff (no surprise).

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I don't doubt that your wife is well-dressed, but don't kid yourself into thinking that your daughters will think she is and want to mimic her style.

If the mother has good taste, the same general fashion sense will often rub off on the daughters. They don't have to mimic their mother's style to accomplish the goal.

My dad is clotheshorse. Of course I wasn't wearing the same stuff my dad wore when I was a teenager, but it certainly affected my taste at the stores I did shop at.