The Fiscal Cliff

[Color Me Badd Fan]

On the first point, having looked at the data - I would disagree.

On your second point - I agree. It is absolutely absurd that government has been functioning on CRs for as long as they have. That body (Congress) has some serious problems and both parties are responsible for it. It is well beyond time to return to a real budgetary process.

But that doesn't change what the shutdown is and how it is going back on America's agreed upon obligations through the legislative process. it still remains a horrific idea to shutdown government for these political/partisan reasons in some perverse version of Russian roulette. (Do what I want or I will pull the trigger on all of us....)

How much did the government shutdowns hurt the Democrats back when they were pulling it in the 80s and early 90s? (Is it true it happened something like 16 times prior to this one since 1976? Hell it sounds like it was practically a yearly thing back then.) The Republicans controlled the House for another 11 years after that 95-96 shutdown, and the Senate for 9 of 11 years. I don't recall the government shutdown playing a role in the 2006 elections.

[Uncle Ted]

I was talking about the actual direct budget for the park itself, not the overall impact of the economy. Yes, I am sure that the state of Utah will take a huge hit the national parks close.

Yes and I was talking about redirecting some of that billion dollars that feeds into Utah's economy to keep those parks open. You don't want the motel 8 down in Moab to go out of business. Folks might actually have to pitch a tent.

There aren't any national parks near the Big D so I guess our economy should be OK.

[Bo Diddley]

I don't like Congress. In fact, I hate them. I hate everything about them. I hate their House, I hate their Senate, I hate everything.... I think the whole Congress, their Senate and their House, is classless. They threw beer on my family and stuff last year, and they did a whole bunch of nasty things, and I don't respect them, and they deserve to lose.

[calicoug]

Pray tell, how does the CBO analyze what something will cost. More specifically, who feeds the CBO the data on which it bases it analysis?

The CBO has lots of sources of information and their analysis is actually spelled out in their publication.

[calicoug]

Citing the CBO as an authoritative source is like citing Miss Cleo.

Is there a better one? We are dealing with forecasts here which by their nature are not definitive. That doesn't mean they are on the level of Miss Cleo. The CBO is highly respected, utilizes advanced forecasting models, and is bi-partisan. If you want to equate that with Miss Cleo, then really any forecasts (pro or con) should be totally disregarded and we can all just make our own guesses about what Obamacare may or may not cost. I'm sure that makes more sense.

[calicoug]

I think you are being a little too dramatic. First off, the football games have not been cancelled...yet. Also, the full faith and credit of the US is hardly on the line. We've had over a dozen gov't shutdowns over the past 40 years or so and we are still moving right along. This is a bump in the road, and one that you are correct that it will hurt the GOP much more than the Dems...and I think rightfully so.

You are conflating two different issues. The full faith and credit is not at risk in the shutdown over the CR. It will be at risk in the debt ceiling debate and it appears Republicans are poised to drive us off that cliff too.

[Uncle Ted]

I was talking about the actual direct budget for the park itself, not the overall impact of the economy. Yes, I am sure that the state of Utah will take a huge hit the national parks close.

Well, there was an effort to save Utah from that monthly billion dollar hit in its economy but it looks like it crashed on take off...

House Republicans launched a new strategy aimed at increasing pressure on Senate Democrats to negotiate with them, only to see it fail in their own chamber Tuesday night. GOP leaders brought forward a series of short-term bills to finance small parts of the government, including veterans services and national parks, through Dec. 15.


None of the bills garnered the two-thirds support needed under an expedited process chosen to highlight House Democrats' unwillingness to fund the popular programs under the Republican plan. GOP lawmakers said they might bring up the bills again later this week in a fashion that would make them easier to pass with just the Republican majority.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...001071104.html

[Uncle Ted]

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[Uncle Ted]

If I was president I would make the 20 members of the first lady's staff essential as well. You must keep the first lady happy.

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[...]
What do these 12 absolutely essential non-Secret Service vice-presidential staff do, guarantee that Joe Biden doesn't make a gaffe during the shutdown?


He also gets one staffer for the vice president's residence. Can't "average Joe," who as a senator famously rode the commuter train with the riffraff from Delaware to Washington every day, make his own meals for a few days? Or put up with Dr. Jill's cooking?


Why are 61 U.S. Trade Representative employees required during the shutdown "for developing, coordinating, and advising the president on U.S. trade policy"?

And how many of the more than 20 members of the first lady's staff, at least four of whom are paid six figures by the taxpayers, will be deemed non-essential?

The White House is just a microcosm of the out-of-control growth in federal government personnel. Shameless federal worker unions already plan to sue to get paid for days they stay home during the shutdown.

One thing a government shutdown does is prove that millions of them can, and should, stay home every day.

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[Uncle Ted]

Your deputy director and chief economist of management and budget office says that Utah will take a billion hit in the economy if the parks are closed for the month....

While there's no estimate yet of the shutdown's financial drain on the state's economy, the costs will climb quickly if funding for federal government operations is not restored soon.




Just keeping the national parks closed through October could mean a $1 billion hit to the state's economy, said Juliette Tennent, deputy director and chief economist of the management and budget office.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...-shutdown.html

If Utah is making so much money on the national parks maybe the federal government should tax y'all a bit more. You can thank Uncle Mike.

The Utah deputy director and chief economist of management and budget office may be full of crap. According to this website "local communities could lose as much as $30 million per day while the government is shut down". So that is about $900 million per month but closing Utah's national parks would cause a billion hit to the state's economy in a month? The math isn't working unless 110% of the national parks are in Utah.

[Jacob]

Why wouldn't the parks close? The shutdown removes (with just a few specific exceptions) the governments ability to pay any of its bills, regardless of whether the agency is financially self-sufficent or not. Another example, this weekend's Air Force vs. Navy Football game is cancelled because the travel and stadium costs can't be incurred, even if the football program were to generate sufficient revenue.

It is why a government shutdown is such a bad way to push a policy disagreement. You put at risk the full faith and credit of the US all for a narrow political disagreement.

The natural parks, mostly, are natural wonders or monuments to look at. Why would they close? No federal staff is needed. There are no bills to pay, they are there to be seen with or without funding.

[cougjunkie]

The natural parks, mostly, are natural wonders or monuments to look at. Why would they close? No federal staff is needed. There are no bills to pay, they are there to be seen with or without funding.

Security? Fountains? Lighting?

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[Omaha 680]

LOL at the shutdown clock on CNN. The government has been shut down for over 27 hours! This is getting serious!

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[Uncle Ted]

Breakdown on the non-essential government employees...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...%20Workers.jpg



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[imanihonjin]

The CBO has lots of sources of information and their analysis is actually spelled out in their publication.

Wrong. The CBO bases its analysis on the factors given to them by the Congressmen/women/people asking them to score a bill. If they ask them to score it by making certain assumptions that are craptastic assumptions, well then the CBO will score it based on faulty assumptions.