The Fiscal Cliff

[beefytee]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong. But my recollection is that Mass decided that they wanted to have a healthcare program, so Romney came up with his model. I don't think Romney was the one that wanted it - I think he was giving the voters what they overwhelmingly asked for. And I think that elected officials should consider that when making decisions. Though I admit I don't always agree with what the majority wants.

I don't know about the voters, but IIRC Romney was the initiator and driver of the legislation. He even recruited Ted Kennedy to help get the democrats in the state on board.

[Eddie]

I don't know about the voters, but IIRC Romney was the initiator and driver of the legislation. He even recruited Ted Kennedy to help get the democrats in the state on board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massach...th_care_reform

In November 2004, political leaders began advocating major reforms of the Massachusetts health care insurance system to expand coverage. First, the Senate President Robert Travaglini called for a plan to reduce the number of uninsured by half. A few days later, the Governor, Mitt Romney, announced that he would propose a plan to cover virtually all of the uninsured.

At the same time, the ACT (Affordable Care Today) Coalition introduced a bill that expanded MassHealth (Medicaid and SCHIP) coverage and increased health coverage subsidy programs and required employers to either provide coverage or pay an assessment to the state. The coalition began gathering signatures to place their proposal on the ballot in November 2006 if the legislature did not enact comprehensive health care reform, resulting in the collection of over 75,000 signatures on the MassACT ballot proposal. The Blue Cross Blue Shield Foundation also sponsored a study, "Roadmap to Coverage," to expand coverage to everyone in the Commonwealth.[20]

Attention focused on the House when then-Massachusetts House Speaker Salvatore DiMasi, speaking at a Blue Cross Blue Shield Foundation Roadmap To Coverage forum in October 2005, pledged to pass a bill through the House by the end of the session. At the forum, the Foundation issued a series of reports on reform options, all of which included an individual mandate. At the end of the month, the Joint Committee on Health Care Financing approved a reform proposal crafted by House Speaker DiMasi, Committee co-chair Patricia Walrath and other House members.[21]

Yeah - it's wiki - but I don't care enough to do any REAL research.

From this excerpt it appears that it was an issue that was at the forefront of people's thought before Romney got involved. He wasn't the last, by any means, but he wasn't the first. And his entry to the discussion seems to have followed after a lot of interest by others.

I also seem to recall it not being all that controversial. Meaning that it passed the Mass house with only a couple of dissenting votes and passed the senate without one. It didn't hurt that he seemed to put together a pretty good group of folks to work out the details before running it through the Mass congress too.

I don't know if it would've worked everywhere. But it worked in Mass and was pretty popular there. Again - not saying the legislation itself is good or bad, I'm just giving Mitt a pass for working on a problem that the voters of his state were very interested in and in a way that he seemed to have a lot of support from both parties.

Not sure what role Ted Kennedy played - but the way this thing sailed through both houses in Mass is pretty amazing if Mitt felt like he needed a lot of help. I could see him engaging leaders from both sides for support, but I have a hard time believing it was controversial there.

[beefytee]

Not sure what role Ted Kennedy played - but the way this thing sailed through both houses in Mass is pretty amazing if Mitt felt like he needed a lot of help. I could see him engaging leaders from both sides for support, but I have a hard time believing it was controversial there.

Here's what I'm referring to:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us...ted=1&_r=2&hp&

A summary of which can be found here:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rom...3/25/id/433818

[Uncle Ted]

Fitch is officially reviewing its AAA credit rating for the United States for a possible downgrade. Look for the SEC to make some announcements about investigating Fitch.

[calicoug]

Well this was totally unforseeable.

http://mobile.politico.com/iphone/story/1013/98347.html

It's almost as if brinksmanship creates uncertainty which hits at the very core of our system (being built on faith in our government's ability to pay all obligations when due).

I don't know if it's more absurd we really are at this point or if otherwise intelligent people like Moliere still can't realize we are. Lasting harm has already been done. Now it's just a matter of how deep the harm will go.

Republicans never again get to claim the mantle of fiscal responsibility.

This whole episode is dismaying.

[calicoug]

Did the tea partiers run some dumb candidates? Sure. However, to blame them for losing the Senate is misplaced angst. You forget that it was the tea party movement that led the charge to a republican House and without their fervor in 2010, taking over the Senate wouldn't have even been a consideration.

You act like what happened in 2010 was good for Republicans or the country. We elected uncompromising morons to the House. They are currently destroying the Republican Party from the inside out (who would have guessed...). They aren't satisfied with wrecking just a party and have a larger target now.

What a train wreck. That group and it's supporters should be ashamed.

[Moliere]

Well this was totally unforseeable.

http://mobile.politico.com/iphone/story/1013/98347.html

It's almost as if brinksmanship creates uncertainty which hits at the very core of our system (being built on faith in our government's ability to pay all obligations when due).

I don't know if it's more absurd we really are at this point or if otherwise intelligent people like Moliere still can't realize we are. Lasting harm has already been done. Now it's just a matter of how deep the harm will go.

Republicans never again get to claim the mantle of fiscal responsibility.

This whole episode is dismaying.

So your sticking to your story that we are close to defaulting on our debt? I'm not sure a notch downgrade from AAA means we are close to default, but I'm not a brilliant lawyer like yourself.

[Uncle Ted]

You act like what happened in 2010 was good for Republicans or the country. We elected uncompromising morons to the House. They are currently destroying the Republican Party from the inside out (who would have guessed...). They aren't satisfied with wrecking just a party and have a larger target now.

What a train wreck. That group and it's supporters should be ashamed.

And we (re-)elected an uncompromising moron Granny to the senate...

Granny.jpg

[Maximus]

You act like what happened in 2010 was good for Republicans or the country. We elected uncompromising morons to the House. They are currently destroying the Republican Party from the inside out (who would have guessed...). They aren't satisfied with wrecking just a party and have a larger target now.

What a train wreck. That group and it's supporters should be ashamed.

and you continue to think all the blame rests on repubs, while obama and the senate have presided on the most debt, biggest deficits and most partisanship in a long time.

[calicoug]

So your sticking to your story that we are close to defaulting on our debt? I'm not sure a notch downgrade from AAA means we are close to default, but I'm not a brilliant lawyer like yourself.

Of course we are close. Are you really sticking with your story we aren't? The downgrade isn't on the default. It's on our brinksmanship with them still counting on a deal! If brinksmanship gets a downgrade, it's staggering to think anyone would conclude failure to pay obligations (even of a non-debt variety) would pass unnoticed.

It's also unclear what multiple downgrades would do. The US is at the heart of all global commerce. What happens if that starts to change? If you were a large creditor like China would you be unfazed by this? Look at how many major investing institutions already are saying they don't have any one month t bills. That's crazy we are at the point where investors don't have confidence in those debt instruments. If that confidence is gone what else will falter even if we don't ultimately default?

This idiocy will impact us for a long time.

[All-American]

Of course we are close. Are you really sticking with your story we aren't? The downgrade isn't on the default. It's on our brinksmanship with them still counting on a deal! If brinksmanship gets a downgrade, it's staggering to think anyone would conclude failure to pay obligations (even of a non-debt variety) would pass unnoticed.

It's also unclear what multiple downgrades would do. The US is at the heart of all global commerce. What happens if that starts to change? If you were a large creditor like China would you be unfazed by this? Look at how many major investing institutions already are saying they don't have any one month t bills. That's crazy we are at the point where investors don't have confidence in those debt instruments. If that confidence is gone what else will falter even if we don't ultimately default?

This idiocy will impact us for a long time.

And to think we could have had Romney.

[calicoug]

and you continue to think all the blame rests on repubs, while obama and the senate have presided on the most debt, biggest deficits and most partisanship in a long time.

We can argue about all if those reasons but mine of them have anything to do with our manufactured crisis. We could deal with all of those things without this crisis. Even Boehner knows that. Otherwise, why offer to end the crisis if Congressional staff gets subsidies removed? Removing the subsidies isn't helping our debt situation at all but somehow that's the price Republicans want to extract for this lunacy?

[UVACoug]

From what I hear from the media, Romneycare is very popular in Massachuesetts. Is that because they are very liberal in that State? Does it work better on a State level? Is that evidence Obamacare might work?

RomneyCare was built for Massachusetts's specific problems, and it worked there. People in Massachusetts hated the idea of ObamaCare. That is why they elected Scott Brown (to stop it from passing).

[calicoug]

And to think we could have had Romney.

Right. The Tea Party would have loved him too. DeMint has already blamed Romney for preventing Republicans from really attacking Obamacare because of Romney's clear ties to the law.

You guys would be entertaining if you weren't so good at breaking stuff.

[UVACoug]

I don't know about the voters, but IIRC Romney was the initiator and driver of the legislation. He even recruited Ted Kennedy to help get the democrats in the state on board.

He didn't pull it out of thin air. There was a big demand for health care reform in Massachusetts and Romney, with the assistance of the Heritage Foundation, came up with the individual mandate plan. The only thing he had to sell Dems on was to drop their demands for a single payer system.


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