The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Goatnapper'96]

Everyone's vote should count the same.

It does count the same as everyone else in your state. It is a good system that made a preserved a union. It is part of our representative democracy. The same concept that has whining pussies thinking it would be noble of electors to not vote for the man their state elected.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Pretty sure Piers is just protecting 4 years of great material.



There's a reason that the US is a representative democracy and not a straight democracy. It isn't perfect, but it does a pretty good job of protecting the little guys in the fly over states. And make no mistake - we are a country of united STATES. Every person's vote counts exactly the same as everyone else's within their state. To say that people's votes don't count the same is silly.

Yep. And it doesn't end with the electoral college. Two senators per state, regardless of population.

[Applejack]

Pretty sure Piers is just protecting 4 years of great material.



There's a reason that the US is a representative democracy and not a straight democracy. It isn't perfect, but it does a pretty good job of protecting the little guys in the fly over states. And make no mistake - we are a country of united STATES. Every person's vote counts exactly the same as everyone else's within their state. To say that people's votes don't count the same is silly.

How does everyone's vote count the same if we don't count everyone's vote the same? If we want everyone's vote to count, let's count all the votes and be done with it. The electoral college is anachronistic-it's outlived it's usefulness.

Here are the reasons proffered for why the EC is good so far in this thread:

1. It makes NY and California have less power (thanks, 71)
2. It "protects" rural voters in fly over states from something, probably liberalism.
3. It was in the original constitution so it must be from God (again, thanks 71)
4. It mitigates fraud (not sure how)

Pretty sad reasons, to be honest.

[byu71]

How does everyone's vote count the same if we don't count everyone's vote the same? If we want everyone's vote to count, let's count all the votes and be done with it. The electoral college is anachronistic-it's outlived it's usefulness.

Here are the reasons proffered for why the EC is good so far in this thread:

1. It makes NY and California have less power (thanks, 71)
2. It "protects" rural voters in fly over states from something, probably liberalism.
3. It was in the original constitution so it must be from God (again, thanks 71)
4. It mitigates fraud (not sure how)


Pretty sad reasons, to be honest.

LOL, how is that being honest? You stated your opinion, fine. Your opinion is just that, an opinion.

[Applejack]

Right now if voter fraud pops up, it only affects certain electoral votes.

And those electoral votes could alter the election. Look if you are committing wide-scale voter fraud (which doesn't exist, btw) is it easier to get 5,000,000 votes in the country or 15,000 in Florida? Obviously the latter. And with the EC, changing how Florida's electoral votes could alter the election. It seems much easier to commit fraud when all you have to do is tip one or two states.

[Goatnapper'96]

Yep. And it doesn't end with the electoral college. Two senators per state, regardless of population.

I get why Liberals are not as enthusiastic about "the system" as Conservatives. The system has justified some awful things in our history. But at least should they not be aware of the historical role of these institutions in making and preserving us a Nation?

To whine about this not being a true democracy is kind of dumb because it was never designed to be one because the country would not have ever existed under those circumstances.

I will let you in on a hint my liberal friends...come to peace with gun rights and the electoral college. But look on the bright side pregnant women can legally have their unborn fetuses killed if they find pregnancy inconvenient. Sometimes freedom, or a country, ain't like uh free or something.

[Jeff Lebowski]

How does everyone's vote count the same if we don't count everyone's vote the same? If we want everyone's vote to count, let's count all the votes and be done with it. The electoral college is anachronistic-it's outlived it's usefulness.

Here are the reasons proffered for why the EC is good so far in this thread:

1. It makes NY and California have less power (thanks, 71)
2. It "protects" rural voters in fly over states from something, probably liberalism.
3. It was in the original constitution so it must be from God (again, thanks 71)
4. It mitigates fraud (not sure how)

Pretty sad reasons, to be honest.

Ha. You are the one claiming it is anachronistic, I would think the burden is on you to make the case why. Seems more useful/important than ever if you ask me.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I get why Liberals are not as enthusiastic about "the system" as Conservatives. The system has justified some awful things in our history. But at least should they not be aware of the historical role of these institutions in making and preserving us a Nation?

To whine about this not being a true democracy is kind of dumb because it was never designed to be one because the country would not have ever existed under those circumstances.

I will let you in on a hint my liberal friends...come to peace with gun rights and the electoral college. But look on the bright side pregnant women can legally have their unborn fetuses killed if they find pregnancy inconvenient. Sometimes freedom, or a country, ain't like uh free or something.

Yeah, there are countless measures in the US constitution to prevent a tyrannical majority. And rightly so.

[Goatnapper'96]

How does everyone's vote count the same if we don't count everyone's vote the same? If we want everyone's vote to count, let's count all the votes and be done with it. The electoral college is anachronistic-it's outlived it's usefulness.

Here are the reasons proffered for why the EC is good so far in this thread:

1. It makes NY and California have less power (thanks, 71)
2. It "protects" rural voters in fly over states from something, probably liberalism.
3. It was in the original constitution so it must be from God (again, thanks 71)
4. It mitigates fraud (not sure how)

Pretty sad reasons, to be honest.

I think folks in fly over country believe the policies pursued by this country have disproportionately benefited the more populated coastal states - often at their expense. The reality is this concerns folks in interior states now as it did a real long time ago.

[Uncle Ted]

Yep. And it doesn't end with the electoral college. Two senators per state, regardless of population.

Yeah, that is a good thing too but some of those more sparsely populated states like Utah and Navada should only maybe have one. I am tired of the big month senators like Hatch and Reid.

[Topper]

How does everyone's vote count the same if we don't count everyone's vote the same? If we want everyone's vote to count, let's count all the votes and be done with it. The electoral college is anachronistic-it's outlived it's usefulness.

Here are the reasons proffered for why the EC is good so far in this thread:

1. It makes NY and California have less power (thanks, 71)
2. It "protects" rural voters in fly over states from something, probably liberalism.
3. It was in the original constitution so it must be from God (again, thanks 71)
4. It mitigates fraud (not sure how)

Pretty sad reasons, to be honest.

The EC is brilliant, and any voter not from Cali, Texas, New York or Florida should love it.

The Framers wanted views from rural and urban regions, not just from an urban region that could dominate with one perspective engaging in a tyranny of the majority. This also requires candidates to consider the views of all states, even the small states.

If you are a voter of the big four or five, your vote still counts but it is part of the chorus of votes from one region, representing one view. The President is supposed to consider the opinions of all regions and all peoples. If you return to a popular vote, the campaigning will change but the votes of the two coasts will be all that matter. I much prefer the the national, more diverse representation that this brilliant invention produces. Under your approach, no minority opinion would be represented but just the limited opinions of the elites of certain urban areas.

[Applejack]

Ha. You are the one claiming it is anachronistic, I would think the burden is on you to make the case why. Seems more useful/important than ever if you ask me.

The case is easy, I think. 1 person = 1 vote. No one's vote should be discounted because they live in a certain state. The minority should not rule the majority.

And I don't think anyone believes that the Electoral College is the loadstar that has preserved this nation thru trials and tribulations. We would be just fine if we just voted, counted the votes (1 person = 1 vote), and were done with it.

[Bo Diddley]

And those electoral votes could alter the election. Look if you are committing wide-scale voter fraud (which doesn't exist, btw) is it easier to get 5,000,000 votes in the country or 15,000 in Florida? Obviously the latter. And with the EC, changing how Florida's electoral votes could alter the election. It seems much easier to commit fraud when all you have to do is tip one or two states.

Of course any voter fraud potentially affects the outcome of the election. That potential is mitigated somewhat with the EC because it is isolated to the electoral votes they affect. I think that once you break down those barriers, some people will be more motivated to commit voter fraud.

[Uncle Ted]

And those electoral votes could alter the election. Look if you are committing wide-scale voter fraud (which doesn't exist, btw) is it easier to get 5,000,000 votes in the country or 15,000 in Florida? Obviously the latter. And with the EC, changing how Florida's electoral votes could alter the election. It seems much easier to commit fraud when all you have to do is tip one or two states.

Yeah... Voter fraud only exist in Detroit but who cares?

[byu71]

The case is easy, I think. 1 person = 1 vote. No one's vote should be discounted because they live in a certain state. The minority should not rule the majority.

And I don't think anyone believes that the Electoral College is the loadstar that has preserved this nation thru trials and tribulations. We would be just fine if we just voted, counted the votes (1 person = 1 vote), and were done with it.

How do you feel about the courts overturning the vote of the people?

Also, is there a number somewhere that tells us the average education of a voter in California vs say Utah.