The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[VirginiaCougar]

We're less than three years removed from the Democrats getting a historical ass-kicking in the midterms, Obama won by less than four points and the navel-gazers are saying the Republicans are imploding? How many governorships and state legislatures do the GOP control again? And it's increasingly becoming likely that the GOP will take back the Senate next year.

Meanwhile the Democrats have Hillary to run in 2016 and that's it. Zero viable candidates outside of her. I don't think the Democrats can win the White House with a white male candidate for the next 20 years. They're going to have to have the record-breaking minority turnout like they had in 2008 and 2012 every time because of what the Obama administration has done.

Oh, the Democrats do have their problems - no doubt. We could spend time with them as well but that doesn't change what I argue. As I mentioned above, the reason the GOP does well in many state legislatures is gerrymandered disctricts. it is also a process that radicalizes candidates even more. Governors are an interesting thing and certainly gives me a bit of hope. Part of it is demographics, part of it is that for some reason slightly more moderate GOP candidates found a way to survive the rightwing onslaught.

Even then, I am pretty sure that my longtime boss Mike Leavitt wouldn't survive a Convention process in Utah this year. Inspite of being very successful and overall popular as Governor. Herbert is the new moderate but he isn't a Leavitt, Walker, or Huntsman.

The bigger problem you have is that those "record-breaking" minority turnouts are the new normal and it is going to get worse over the years (worse in terms of the GOP) The electorate will continue to get more hispanic, younger, more female in the years to conme. The GOP has gone after those sectors full force.

One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.

Not a big fan of Hillary, but I do think she will likely beat ANY of the currently discussed GOP candidates. There are also quite a few young Democratic political leaders rising up on their side of the aisle. For all their faults, once seasoned the Castro brothers and others like them are going to make folks like Cruz on the GOP side look like absolute fools. I worry a lot about the lack of good, young talent in the GOP these days. The only ones making it up seem to be the ideologues. When you get someone who might make it like Rubio - they take their chances and just blow them up (7K year earth, some of Rubio's more recent stands which undermine his own previous efforts).

[SandYFan]

One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.

Does anyone here buy your "I'm a Republican!" act? Just curious.

[All-American]

Oh, the Democrats do have their problems - no doubt. We could spend time with them as well but that doesn't change what I argue. As I mentioned above, the reason the GOP does well in many state legislatures is gerrymandered disctricts. it is also a process that radicalizes candidates even more. Governors are an interesting thing and certainly gives me a bit of hope. Part of it is demographics, part of it is that for some reason slightly more moderate GOP candidates found a way to survive the rightwing onslaught.

Even then, I am pretty sure that my longtime boss Mike Leavitt wouldn't survive a Convention process in Utah this year. Inspite of being very successful and overall popular as Governor. Herbert is the new moderate but he isn't a Leavitt, Walker, or Huntsman.

The bigger problem you have is that those "record-breaking" minority turnouts are the new normal and it is going to get worse over the years (worse in terms of the GOP) The electorate will continue to get more hispanic, younger, more female in the years to conme. The GOP has gone after those sectors full force.

One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.

Not a big fan of Hillary, but I do think she will likely beat ANY of the currently discussed GOP candidates. There are also quite a few young Democratic political leaders rising up on their side of the aisle. For all their faults, once seasoned the Castro brothers and others like them are going to make folks like Cruz on the GOP side look like absolute fools. I worry a lot about the lack of good, young talent in the GOP these days. The only ones making it up seem to be the ideologues. When you get someone who might make it like Rubio - they take their chances and just blow them up (7K year earth, some of Rubio's more recent stands which undermine his own previous efforts).

Hillary is and should be favored over current GOP candidates, but she can be beaten. You're talking about someone whose resume features time as First Lady, for which she was most famous for shredding documents, failing to pass health care reform, and getting cuckolded by an intern; as a Senator, during which her most significant act was supporting the war in Iraq; and as Secretary of State, when she claimed responsibility for why happened in Benghazi. Anybody who thinks Hillary can't be beaten will also need to explain why she lost in 2008, and why she didn't serve in Obama's second term administration.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Oh, the Democrats do have their problems - no doubt. We could spend time with them as well but that doesn't change what I argue. As I mentioned above, the reason the GOP does well in many state legislatures is gerrymandered disctricts. it is also a process that radicalizes candidates even more. Governors are an interesting thing and certainly gives me a bit of hope. Part of it is demographics, part of it is that for some reason slightly more moderate GOP candidates found a way to survive the rightwing onslaught.

Even then, I am pretty sure that my longtime boss Mike Leavitt wouldn't survive a Convention process in Utah this year. Inspite of being very successful and overall popular as Governor. Herbert is the new moderate but he isn't a Leavitt, Walker, or Huntsman.

The bigger problem you have is that those "record-breaking" minority turnouts are the new normal and it is going to get worse over the years (worse in terms of the GOP) The electorate will continue to get more hispanic, younger, more female in the years to conme. The GOP has gone after those sectors full force.

One thing the GOP has done well is demonize, turning Obama into the Constitution Destroying, Socialist, Marxist, African Anti-Christ bringing the tyranny of Health Care to you door. But they are increasing unable to govern, nor do they show the ability to govern. One look at the likes of Mike Lee, Rep. Osmond and countless others make this point painfully clear.

Not a big fan of Hillary, but I do think she will likely beat ANY of the currently discussed GOP candidates. There are also quite a few young Democratic political leaders rising up on their side of the aisle. For all their faults, once seasoned the Castro brothers and others like them are going to make folks like Cruz on the GOP side look like absolute fools. I worry a lot about the lack of good, young talent in the GOP these days. The only ones making it up seem to be the ideologues. When you get someone who might make it like Rubio - they take their chances and just blow them up (7K year earth, some of Rubio's more recent stands which undermine his own previous efforts).

All of this you're saying about the GOP demonizing Obama was also said about the Democrats vis a vis George W. Bush circa 2005. Same shit, different year and administration.

And for every Mike Lee, you have certifiable nut like Barbara Boxer. Then you have types like Jesse Jackson, Jr. who get reelected year after year on the Democratic House side.

I count you as one of the navel-gazers. You're in the minority as far as thinking the GOP can't govern, because the voters in 30 of the states think they can and the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history along with credit ratings in California and Illinois says the Democrats can't.

[frank ryan]

All of this you're saying about the GOP demonizing Obama was also said about the Democrats vis a vis George W. Bush circa 2005. Same shit, different year and administration.

And for every Mike Lee, you have certifiable nut like Barbara Boxer. Then you have types like Jesse Jackson, Jr. who get reelected year after year on the Democratic House side.

I count you as one of the navel-gazers. You're in the minority as far as thinking the GOP can't govern, because the voters in 30 of the states think they can and the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history along with credit ratings in California and Illinois says the Democrats can't.

Mike Lee is also a nut

[frank ryan]

Looks like Rand Paul and Chris Christie are already gearing up already.. However, in my mind. This just goes to how separated the GOP is and lessens the chance of winning. But, there is still lots of time before then. But the infighting still remains..

Paul responding to Christie blasting him about surveillance on US citizens..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...k-more-real-a/

I think Paul would be unelectable for the office of POTUS

[VirginiaCougar]

Does anyone here buy your "I'm a Republican!" act? Just curious.

Why wouldn't they - its true. Its only the real ideologues that have a problem with my life-long ties to the GOP. They would prefer to "purify" the party and rid it of all those evil RINOs.

[VirginiaCougar]

All of this you're saying about the GOP demonizing Obama was also said about the Democrats vis a vis George W. Bush circa 2005. Same shit, different year and administration.

And for every Mike Lee, you have certifiable nut like Barbara Boxer. Then you have types like Jesse Jackson, Jr. who get reelected year after year on the Democratic House side.

I count you as one of the navel-gazers. You're in the minority as far as thinking the GOP can't govern, because the voters in 30 of the states think they can and the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history along with credit ratings in California and Illinois says the Democrats can't.

Yes, horrific things were said about Bush. He was wrong about most things, but a lot of what was said about him just wrong. Do you tell your kids that because the neighbor kids take drugs that it is more than OK for them to do so?

As far as navel-gazing, it is far, far better to be self-reflective and attempt objectivity than it is to be so certain you are right that it doesn't matter what reality tell you. Or to be more crass since you want to go anatomy, I'd rather gaze at my navel than have my head stuck in an ideological butt so far that I can't smell or choose to ignore the stink because I just know the ideology is "true" regardless.

[VirginiaCougar]

I think Paul would be unelectable for the office of POTUS

I tend to agree with you. I don't see him being able to win a national election.

[imanihonjin]

Why wouldn't they - its true. Its only the real ideologues that have a problem with my life-long ties to the GOP. They would prefer to "purify" the party and rid it of all those evil RINOs.

Who cares about your "ties" with the GOP? Your views align far better with a run-of-the-mill democrat's views than they do with a run-of-the-mill republican's views.

[calicoug]

We're less than three years removed from the Democrats getting a historical ass-kicking in the midterms, Obama won by less than four points and the navel-gazers are saying the Republicans are imploding? How many governorships and state legislatures do the GOP control again? And it's increasingly becoming likely that the GOP will take back the Senate next year. So after that -- the legislative branch will be controlled by the GOP along with a majority of Governorships and state legislatures.

Meanwhile the Democrats have Hillary to run in 2016 and that's it. Zero viable candidates outside of her. I don't think the Democrats can win the White House with a white male candidate for the next 20 years. They're going to have to have the record-breaking minority turnout like they had in 2008 and 2012 every time because of what the Obama administration has done.

If you don't think there are serious issues with the party your head is in the sand. Even Republican leaders think there are serious problems.

You have Boehner, bless his heart, who can't control the radicals in his own caucus and is becoming much more of a slave to them than a leader. You have Senators who were thought to be leaders (like Rubio) being eaten alive by his own for taking a more moderate approach on immigration (apparently nothing is acceptable on immigration reform). You have governors like Christie being killed because he had the gall to work with Obama during a horrific natural disaster. The Senate minority leader has basically lost all control over his caucus because a handful of Republican Senators finally stopped to ask what they were doing in the Senate other than just saying no to everything.

The issue with Republicans isn't the lack of leadership- that's just a symptom of the issue. The actual issue is a culture that makes it extremely difficult for a reasonable leader to emerge. Even Ryan is being viewed as too liberal on budget issues right now. The party has allowed and even encouraged the whackos to take over. I don't know that we have seen anything like this aside from the extreme liberal radicalism in the 1960s (which wasn't exactly good for the country either). It remains to be seen where this ends, but I have a very hard time seeing anyone other than a radical getting the nomination and consequently I have a very hard time seeing Republicans posing a real threat in 2016.

[calicoug]

Hillary is and should be favored over current GOP candidates, but she can be beaten. You're talking about someone whose resume features time as First Lady, for which she was most famous for shredding documents, failing to pass health care reform, and getting cuckolded by an intern; as a Senator, during which her most significant act was supporting the war in Iraq; and as Secretary of State, when she claimed responsibility for why happened in Benghazi. Anybody who thinks Hillary can't be beaten will also need to explain why she lost in 2008, and why she didn't serve in Obama's second term administration.

She lost in 2008 because she was running against Obama and not the litany of nutty Republicans they will offer up in 2016. She is highly likely to win in 2016 because Obama isn't running and the litany of nutty Republicans will be.

[calicoug]

Who cares about your "ties" with the GOP? Your views align far better with a run-of-the-mill democrat's views than they do with a run-of-the-mill republican's views.

VirginiaCougar's views are pretty moderate. Which is why I agree with your conclusion that his views don't fit within the current Republican party.

[pellegrino]

She lost in 2008 because she was running against Obama and not the litany of nutty Republicans they will offer up in 2016. She is highly likely to win in 2016 because Obama isn't running and the litany of nutty Republicans will be.

She lost in 2008 because it was more acceptable among democrats to be a chauvinist than a racist. Her treatment in the press, regardless of their political persuasion was incredibly sexist and despicable.

[YOhio]

I think she lost because she has no charisma, little in terms of actual legislative achievement and is corrupt. That's just IMHO.