The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[Uncle Ted]

Yeah, that is why the survey results surprise me. Looks like the far-right is taking up the banner.

Sean Hannity and Pat Robertson joining the fray. Hannity implies that vaccines are an Obama conspiracy. Robertson longs for the good old days where we get immunity by getting sick first.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/healt...n-advice-video

Both Hannity and Robertson are hacks. Add them to the list with the Rev.

Of course, the government forcing folks to get vaccinations is not the answer... I doubt such a mandate law would not hold up given things like Roe vs. Wade. The government clearly doesn't own people's bodies.

No less a champion of government in your face than Hillary Clinton jumped into this debate with a whacky Tweet that argued that because the Earth is round and the sky is blue and science is right, all kids should be vaccinated. What she was really saying is that in her progressive worldview, the coercive power of the federal government can be used to enforce a scientific orthodoxy upon those states and individuals who intellectually reject it.


In America, you are free to reject it.

Clinton and her Big Government colleagues would be wise to look at their favorite Supreme Court decision: Roe v. Wade. Yes, the same Roe v. Wade that 42 years ago unleashed 45 million abortions also defines the right to bear and raise children as fundamental, and thus personal to parents, and thus largely immune from state interference and utterly immune from federal interference.


Paul's poignant question about who owns your body—and he would be the first to tell you that this is not a federal issue—cannot be ignored by Christie or Clinton or any other presidential candidate. If Paul is right, if we do own our bodies and if we are the custodians of our children's bodies until they reach maturity, then we have the right to make health care choices free from government interference, even if our choices are grounded in philosophy or religion or emotion or alternative science.

Of course, the Judge could be wrong and Roe vs. Wade could go away.

[Uncle Ted]

Ted is an excellent programmer. You may be correct.

Did TedBot pass the Turing Test yet?

[byu71]

Speaking of BOT's, anyone see the "funnybot" episode on South Park?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

This is interesting.

So there's basically no spread between mainstream dems and mainstream conservatives.

I wish they would have asked a follow up question on the self-identified libs and asked them whether they do most of their shopping at Whole Foods. I can guarantee you that subsection would be well below the Tea Party people on this chart.

This is a column that appeared before this whole thing with Rand Paul came around.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-for-everyone/

Seth Mnookin, a journalist who's chronicled the anti-vaccination movement, observed a few years ago that you only had to go visit a Whole Foods to find anti-vaxxers.

Now, it doesn't seem that anyone's actually done the science on that one, but Mnookin's point here is obvious — the anti-vaccination movement is fueled by an over-privileged group of rich people grouped together who swear they won't put any chemicals in their kids (food or vaccines or whatever else), either because it's trendy to be all-natural or they don't understand or accept the science of vaccinations. Their science denying has been propelled further by celebrities, like Jenny McCarthy, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and actress Mayim Bialik, who is also a neuroscientist and even plays one on TV.

You guys are acting like all the nutters come from the conservative end of the spectrum, however there's this:

Researchers analyzing records for about 55,000 children born in 13 northern California counties between 2010 and 2012 found five geographic clusters of 3-year-olds with significantly higher rates of vaccine refusal.

These included East Bay (10.2 percent refusal rate); Marin and southwest Sonoma counties (6.6 percent refusal); northeastern San Francisco (7.4 percent); northeastern Sacramento County and Roseville (5.5 percent); and south of Sacramento (13.5 percent). By comparison, the vaccine refusal rate outside these clusters is 2.6 percent, according to the study published in the journal Pediatrics.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You guys are acting like all the nutters come from the conservative end of the spectrum, however there's this:

I have never argued that.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Something I thought of when reading that column was Steve Jobs decision to initially seek out alternative medicine when he received his cancer diagnosis. I can't begin to understand that decision. As has been mentioned here before, Dave Rose had the same form of cancer, but he was smart enough to know that he doesn't know everything and deferred to his doctors when they treated him.

But you see the Steve Jobs mentality in Bill Maher in the video I posted previously when he makes a reference to the limits/bad faith interests of Western medicine and that vaccinations are just another scam to extract money. As a proxy for religious belief, they have a belief that profit motives of big pharma and the medical sector has either tainted our medical treatment or has arrogantly dismissed more "Eastern" methods of medicine that incorporate herbs and taping pieces of chicken to your skin to overcome an allergy to chicken (don't laugh, there are people that believe in this nonsense).

I don't think the majority of the nuts in Marin and Sonoma counties base their decision not to vaccinate only on skepticism of the medical industry, that may play into it. But I think a majority of the decision is sourced in the same thought process that leads to fanatical devotion to organic, all-natural food. That's why Oregon has the worst vaccination rate in the country, because it has more of those nuts than any other state.

An interesting question to me is why people in places such as Marin think they have all the answers as opposed to this particular segment of medical science which has a very lengthy and extensive track record of success. Related to that question is why the more rank and file democratic voter, and presumably less educated than the elite living in San Francisco, make the correct decision on this point.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Yeah, that is why the survey results surprise me. Looks like the far-right is taking up the banner.

Sean Hannity and Pat Robertson joining the fray. Hannity implies that vaccines are an Obama conspiracy. Robertson longs for the good old days where we get immunity by getting sick first.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/healt...n-advice-video

I don't think you can glean anything out of those survey results regarding the left vs. right aspect, the spread between the Tea Partiers and the Libs is something like 7 points. As I mentioned before, the survey should have had a follow-up on a particular group within the self-identified lib group. Apparently they weren't interested in that question.

As the column that Ted posted suggests, the anti-vax thing is probably better categorized as a libertarian thing. I can say it better -- it should be categorized as primarily a libertarian granola thing but is seeping into the anti-government libertarian crowd. It's funny how Vermont (imagine that!) is the darkest blue state along the east coast. Also, this current iteration of the debate started with Rand Paul's idiotic comments. Rand Paul's political ceiling is only moderately higher than his nutjob father's.

[Uncle Ted]

I don't think you can glean anything out of those survey results regarding the left vs. right aspect, the spread between the Tea Partiers and the Libs is something like 7 points. As I mentioned before, the survey should have had a follow-up on a particular group within the self-identified lib group. Apparently they weren't interested in that question.

As the column that Ted posted suggests, the anti-vax thing is probably better categorized as a libertarian thing. I can say it better -- it should be categorized as primarily a libertarian granola thing but is seeping into the anti-government libertarian crowd. It's funny how Vermont (imagine that!) is the darkest blue state along the east coast. Also, this current iteration of the debate started with Rand Paul's idiotic comments. Rand Paul's political ceiling is only moderately higher than his nutjob father's.

I consider myself a libertarian but rarely shop at whole foods. A lot that food taste like crap and costs too damn much! Besides we have H.E.B's here in Texas.

The only thing the libertarians want is to keep the government from mandating vaccinations. We own our bodies, dammit. It sounds like to me that Grandma Clinton wants the government to own them, however. Like Rand Paul the majority of the libertarians don't have any problem getting their shots. It is those looney liberal, tree-hugging, hippies in Oregon that don't like the needle.

And the current iteration of the debate started with the liberal media's dumbass interpretation of Rand Paul's comments about vaccinations. Of course, their interpretation has been shown to be completely wrong... as usual. They should stick to reporting the news and not their own (possibly vaccine induce brain damaged) opinion. (I have heard of cases of this.)

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Looks like vaccinations are going gone a big deal with the next election.

Also the HEB tortillas are legit.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Rand Paul explains his reasoning.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...view-parenting

“the state doesn’t own your children, parents own the children.”

You know, kind of like how masters owned slaves. Do whatever you want with them! They are your property.


Ted, allow me:

Liberal media bias .... Al Sharpton ... Texas ... WhataBurger ... Here's a long link ... something, something.

[Uncle Ted]

Rand Paul explains his reasoning.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...view-parenting



You know, kind of like how masters owned slaves. Do whatever you want with them! They are your property.

Damn right! I don't want Grandma Clinton taking ownership of my kids. They are my slaves kids!

Ted, allow me:

Liberal media bias .... Al Sharpton ... Texas ... WhataBurger ... Here's a long link ... something, something.

Now you're starting to get it.

[Nakoma]

It appears the well-educated portion of the populace is the most likely not to vaccinate children. Some Ithaca, NY schools have very low rates of vaccinated children.

http://ithacavoice.com/2015/02/despi...ination-rates/

[Northwestcoug]

Maybe Rand Paul and Glenn Beck can mount an independent candidate for the presidency. Because they have the same clear vision of how vaccinations subjugate the masses!

"The measles hoax," Beck began, "is it possible we have been lied to about the measles, this outbreak?"

Beck said that the reports are designed to instill a "herd mentality," so that parents would "grab their children and obey the government."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...k-measles-hoax

[Jeff Lebowski]

Maybe Rand Paul and Glenn Beck can mount an independent candidate for the presidency. Because they have the same clear vision of how vaccinations subjugate the masses!

Texas ... Whataburger ... Al Sharpton.

[LiveCoug]

Also the HEB tortillas are legit.