The real "war on women" - courtesy of Islam

[Indy Coug]

marsupial's point: how ironic that religious Americans are so quick to condemn Islam. They should be embarrased for all monotheistic religions.

Why so exclusionary? Why not include polytheism? I can muster up some embarrassment for them too.

[marsupial]

marsupial's point: how ironic that religious Americans are so quick to condemn Islam. They should be embarrased for all monotheistic religions.

That's not actually my point. I have no problems criticizing Islam. But yes, we need to also look within our own places of worship and recognize the unequal status women have there.

And my initial question wasn't necessarily rhetorical. There may be a religion out there that doesn't discriminate against women. If there is, I'd like to know more about it.

[SeattleUte]

Why so exclusionary? Why not include polytheism? I can muster up some embarrassment for them too.

I'm sure you can. But it's easier to sum up monotheism, as the permutations are less numerous and diverse, and it just so happens that modern society is now more closely related to polytheistic ancient societies than monotheistic ones, in its values, culture, etc. Maybe it's because ultimately most pagans didn't take their religion all that seriously as monotheists have.

[DU Ute]

1. Racism and racist memes do not permeate the text of the BOM the way sexist, misogynistic memes permeate the text of the Koran.

2. I'll just check but I assume you're not seriously suggesting that Joseph Smith was as backwards about race as Mohammed was about gender?

3. Mormonism today disavows both racist theology and racist practice and (per Coppins recent article) 91% of Morms no longer believe them. Meanwhile in Islam today the misogynistic suppression of women is spreading and taking deeper root - not the reverse.

So much for that.

1. It may not be at the same level, but they are certainly there and referenced by those looking to paint the church as racist.

2. I was thinking more of Brigham Young. Sure, not technically THE founder, but his racist views on race certainly give Muhammad's sexism a run for its money, not to mention it is a relatively recent stance compared to Muhammad.

3. You obviously haven't had any discussions with Mormon Tea Party types about the "Mexican Problem" threatening to destroy our way of life.

Really though, I was just pointing out that it is silly to use this kind of reasoning to condemn a group of people today. You certainly don't seem to like it when others do it to us.

[marsupial]

Why so exclusionary? Why not include polytheism? I can muster up some embarrassment for them too.

Yeah, I don't think the Buddhists and Hindus do much better in the treatment of women category, at least culturally. I am not very familiar with their religious texts.

[Indy Coug]

Yeah, I don't think the Buddhists and Hindus do much better in the treatment of women category, at least culturally. I am not very familiar with their religious texts.

Then you have the Incans taking young women up to high mountains...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient...-ceremony.html

Fortunately, I have learned from SU that they didn't take religion too seriously, so before they had the ceremony they probably had a stand-up comedian warm up the crowd by riffing about airline food.

[marsupial]

1. It may not be at the same level, but they are certainly there and referenced by those looking to paint the church as racist.

2. I was thinking more of Brigham Young. Sure, not technically THE founder, but his racist views on race certainly give Muhammad's sexism a run for its money, not to mention it is a relatively recent stance compared to Muhammad.

3. You obviously haven't had any discussions with Mormon Tea Party types about the "Mexican Problem" threatening to destroy our way of life.

Really though, I was just pointing out that it is silly to use this kind of reasoning to condemn a group of people today. You certainly don't seem to like it when others do it to us.

I spent a little bit of time in Amman, Jordan while I was a BYU student and received considerable kindness from the people there. My sons are also very good friends with two Muslim boys in our neighborhood. I have spent a lot of time with their family and they have also showed us considerable kindness. So, I really hate it when people paint Muslims as just a bunch of terrorists. I have experienced otherwise. But Islam is a misogynistic religion, even in its most progressive forms. There is no way around it.

[DU Ute]

I spent a little bit of time in Amman, Jordan while I was a BYU student and received considerable kindness from the people there. My sons are also very good friends with two Muslim boys in our neighborhood. I have spent a lot of time with their family and they have also showed us considerable kindness. So, I really hate it when people paint Muslims as just a bunch of terrorists. I have experienced otherwise. But Islam is a misogynistic religion, even in its most progressive forms. There is no way around it.

I think it's disturbing when LDS folks use other religions to dismiss criticisms some women have of the Church (not saying ox or anyone else here is doing this). "Sure, you're excluded from almost every significant leadership position in the Church, but at least we don't beat you and mutilate your genitals!"

[marsupial]

I think it's disturbing when LDS folks use other religions to dismiss criticisms some women have of the Church (not saying ox or anyone else here is doing this). "Sure, you're excluded from almost every significant leadership position in the Church, but at least we don't beat you and mutilate your genitals!"

I agree.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I'm sure individual Muslims in the US are great to have as neighbors and are our friends. It's when Islam is the national religion that there are problems. There's something about it that makes almost all of these Islamic countries totally backward.

On a very basic level you can divide up the world into the following cultures:

1. Mediterranean/Latin America

2. Northern European

3. Sub-Saharan Africa

4. Far East Asia/Portions of Southeast Asia

5. Northern Africa-Middle East

6. India and Southeast Asia

This is very broad and we're lumping in, say, Russia with the US. Also, I don't know if SE Asia belongs with Far East Asia or with India. But if you look at the cultures from around the world on a basic level and try to very generally group them, who does better than the first two groups as far as their treatment of women? Sure, they're not blameless, but they're a helluva lot better than the other four groups. And the common thread between them is Christianity and some descendancy from Greece and Rome -- i.e. inheritance of Western Civilization.

[DrumNFeather]

I think it's disturbing when LDS folks use other religions to dismiss criticisms some women have of the Church (not saying ox or anyone else here is doing this). "Sure, you're excluded from almost every significant leadership position in the Church, but at least we don't beat you and mutilate your genitals!"

It does seem though that one is more of a first world problem than the other is. That's an important distinction to make, IMO, and not an excuse or justification at all.

[Omaha 680]

Everyone should read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She is a remarkable woman.

[dabrockster]

WTF??!?!?!?!!!

Egyptian husbands will soon be legally allowed to have sex with their dead wives for up to six hours after their death, local media is claiming.

The controversial new law is claimed to be part of a raft of measures being introduced by the Islamist-dominated parliament. It will also see the minimum age of marriage lowered to 14 and the ridding of women's rights of getting education and employment.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...TER-death.html

[byu71]

WTF??!?!?!?!!!






http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...TER-death.html

Yea, WTF. Why only up to six hours?

[DrumNFeather]

Yea, WTF. Why only up to six hours?

Because after 6 hours it starts to get a bit creepy...