The real "war on women" - courtesy of Islam

[oxcoug]

Pardon my political incorrectness, but everyone should read this. What a royally effed up religious culture.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...te_us?page=0,0

When more than 90 percent of ever-married women in Egypt -- including my mother and all but one of her six sisters -- have had their genitals cut in the name of modesty, then surely we must all blaspheme. When Egyptian women are subjected to humiliating "virginity tests" merely for speaking out, it's no time for silence. When an article in the Egyptian criminal code says that if a woman has been beaten by her husband "with good intentions" no punitive damages can be obtained, then to hell with political correctness. And what, pray tell, are "good intentions"? They are legally deemed to include any beating that is "not severe" or "directed at the face." What all this means is that when it comes to the status of women in the Middle East, it's not better than you think. It's much, much worse.

[SeattleUte]

You are painting with a broad brush stroke. On NPR this morning they talked about how right wing U.S. Islam haters will use her article to paint all of Islam with the same brush. Lots of irony here.

[oxcoug]

You are painting with a broad brush stroke. On NPR this morning they talked about how right wing U.S. Islam haters will use her article to paint all of Islam with the same brush. Lots of irony here.

Of course they'd say that and not surprising that you'd fire it out there.

But it's a bullshit evasion. Starting with the person who posted it that I took it from - a German ultraliberal who runs a conflict resolution program at Columbia University - this critique of Islamic violence against women is honest and defensible. But it's fun and easy to try and dismiss it as fodder for right-wingers.

The suppression of women is deeply embedded in both (a) the Koran itself and (b) the life lived by its founder (which is used as a direct precedent for setting the age of legal marriage in Iran at 9).

[DU Ute]

The suppression of women is deeply embedded in both (a) the Koran itself and (b) the life lived by its founder (which is used as a direct precedent for setting the age of legal marriage in Iran at 9).

People use this same type of argument to paint Mormons as racist. I guess they're right.

[SeattleUte]

Of course they'd say that and not surprising that you'd fire it out there.

But it's a bullshit evasion. Starting with the person who posted it that I took it from - a German ultraliberal who runs a conflict resolution program at Columbia University - this critique of Islamic violence against women is honest and defensible. But it's fun and easy to try and dismiss it as fodder for right-wingers.

The suppression of women is deeply embedded in both (a) the Koran itself and (b) the life lived by its founder (which is used as a direct precedent for setting the age of legal marriage in Iran at 9).

My criticism was not aimed at the article, but your thread title. In fact, the author herself is careful to note that she is not comdemning all of Islam as your title does. There is even very different kinds of awful, like Saudi Arabia married with Islam vs. Egypt married with Islam.

[byu71]

You are painting with a broad brush stroke. On NPR this morning they talked about how right wing U.S. Islam haters will use her article to paint all of Islam with the same brush. Lots of irony here.

What I have a hard time understanding is why liberals come to their defense. Even if it is only 33% of Islam that treats women poorly, I would maintain by liberal standards of how women should be treated 90% of Islam treats women poorly, why again are the libs in support of suppressing womens rights.

Heck they attack the republicans on women's issues that involve probably only 10% of republicans.

Republicans vs Islam on women's rights? You choose has the best track record.

[oxcoug]

People use this same type of argument to paint Mormons as racist. I guess they're right.

1. Racism and racist memes do not permeate the text of the BOM the way sexist, misogynistic memes permeate the text of the Koran.

2. I'll just check but I assume you're not seriously suggesting that Joseph Smith was as backwards about race as Mohammed was about gender?

3. Mormonism today disavows both racist theology and racist practice and (per Coppins recent article) 91% of Morms no longer believe them. Meanwhile in Islam today the misogynistic suppression of women is spreading and taking deeper root - not the reverse.

So much for that.

[oxcoug]

My criticism was not aimed at the article, but your thread title. In fact, the author herself is careful to note that she is not comdemning all of Islam as your title does. There is even very different kinds of awful, like Saudi Arabia married with Islam vs. Egypt married with Islam.

Is it not courtesy of Islam? Does it not come directly from Islam's foundational texts? Is it not widely practiced and enforced both by Islamic religious leaders and by their political allies?

[marsupial]

Can someone please show me a religion that doesn't at least discriminate against women, if not fully hate them? Certainly, Islam is the most abhorrent extreme. But no religion seems to be blameless.

[TripletDaddy]

That is an interesting picture. For some reason I always assumed that a woman wore a shirt or whatever under the jilbaab.

[Maximus]

Can someone please show me a religion that doesn't at least discriminate against women, if not fully hate them? Certainly, Islam is the most abhorrent extreme. But no religion seems to be blameless.

Is there any sense to somehow equate women not holding the priesthood with forced virginity tests or the such?

[SeattleUte]

Can someone please show me a religion that doesn't at least discriminate against women, if not fully hate them? Certainly, Islam is the most abhorrent extreme. But no religion seems to be blameless.

Right at the start of monotheism's founding text, it says:

Genesis 3:16

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The author of the article linked by ox has an interesting explanation why in all monotheism men try to control and subordinate women. Women are the "vector" to the future; they bear the children, have at least initially the greatest access to their minds, etc. But Genesis 3:16 seems to allude to the wife's obligation to keep herself available for intimate relations. So that may be a reason too.

[marsupial]

Is there any sense to somehow equate women not holding the priesthood with forced virginity tests or the such?

I am not equating denying priesthood to virginity tests. I am only stating that all religion is anti-woman on some level. Men created religion. Men created God. This is part of the reason why I am done with religion, mine and all others.

[SeattleUte]

marsupial's point: how ironic that religious Americans are so quick to condemn Islam. They should be embarrased for all monotheistic religions.

[byu71]

marsupial's point: how ironic that religious Americans are so quick to condemn Islam. They should be embarrased for all monotheistic religions.

Is there any irony in how quick you are to condemn religious Americans? Just aksing?