Trayvon Martin

[RobinFinderson]

Here is a decent YouTube version of Zimmerman's 911 call.

[YOUTUBE]jL72w4xiTVU[/YOUTUBE]

[RobinFinderson]

Wow. I think my definition of the word "evidence" is closer to Ox's than yours. Not meant to offend you.

Then your definition is just as bad. The recorded 911 message is definitely EVIDENCE. My own definition recognizes that evidence exists on a continuum from extremely weak and circumstantial to extremely strong. I have described this evidence as weak, but it is nonetheless evidence. And now you can listen for yourself.

[DU Ute]

My source is the tape, which is widely available on YouTube and other places. You can definitely hear something that sounds to me like 'fucking coons.' It is muttered, and there is background noise, so it is POSSIBLE that it might be something else, like 'fucking tools...'. It is NOT perfect evidence, but it really does sound like 'fucking coons' to me.

I don't think this evidence will hold much water in court, and if I were a DA, I would probably not even bring it up. But Ox's assertion that there is NO evidence supporting racial prejudice is simply false. There is WEAK evidence supporting the suspicion of racial motivation.

Don't let ox get you with his race baiting! Look to Colly Wolly for guidance!

[byu71]

Then your definition is just as bad. The recorded 911 message is definitely EVIDENCE. My own definition recognizes that evidence exists on a continuum from extremely weak and circumstantial to extremely strong. I have described this evidence as weak, but it is nonetheless evidence. And now you can listen for yourself.

I have and I didn't hear what you did. However, I am old.

I rely on what I have heard from the media. I have heard all the way from possible to an expert saying NO evidence. You will forgive me if that carries more wait than your listening on You-Tube. However, get me a good solid source who agrees with you and I could be persuaded.

By the way, I am pretty sure the expert was not quoted on Fox.

[RobinFinderson]

Don't let ox get you with his race baiting! Look to Colly Wolly for guidance!

I'm with Colly to the extent that I agree that the question of racial profiling should not matter with regard to how this plays out in the legal arena, but it is an extremely important social issue that deserves some serious national soul-searching.

[RobinFinderson]

I have and I didn't hear what you did. However, I am old.

I rely on what I have heard from the media. I have heard all the way from possible to an expert saying NO evidence. You will forgive me if that carries more wait than your listening on You-Tube. However, get me a good solid source who agrees with you and I could be persuaded.

By the way, I am pretty sure the expert was not quoted on Fox.

I don't think it matters. People will disagree about what the evidence means. I only presented it to counter Ox's statement that NO evidence exists, when in fact, WEAK evidence exists.

[Colly Wolly]

Here is a decent YouTube version of Zimmerman's 911 call.

[YOUTUBE]jL72w4xiTVU[/YOUTUBE]

Can you give me the minute mark of the slur? I listened once just now and didnt hear it. I now see that, at the very least, Zimmerman knew he was black. Wasn't sure if the darkness or rain had made that difficult to ascertain.

[byu71]

I don't think it matters. People will disagree about what the evidence means. I only presented it to counter Ox's statement that NO evidence exists, when in fact, WEAK evidence exists.

OK, I see your point. Also Ox neglected the evidence that some hispanics hate black people.

[RobinFinderson]

Can you give me the minute mark of the slur? I listened once just now and didnt hear it. I now see that, at the very least, Zimmerman knew he was black. Wasn't sure if the darkness or rain had made that difficult to ascertain.

It happens at 2:22. I suggest you start a bit earlier than that so you can hear the context of Martin approaching Zimmerman, then Zimmerman describing Martin as running away. At 2:10 you will hear Zimmerman's car door open and close, with the audio changing from an in-car sound to an out-of-car sound (contradicting Ox's view that Martin approached Zimmerman out of the car).

[RobinFinderson]

OK, I see your point. Also Ox neglected the evidence that some hispanics hate black people.

That may be a fact, but it isn't evidence. You are right, you and I DO have extremely different understandings of the meaning of the word 'evidence.'

[Colly Wolly]

It happens at 2:22. I suggest you start a bit earlier than that so you can hear the context of Martin approaching Zimmerman, then Zimmerman describing Martin as running away. At 2:10 you will hear Zimmerman's car door open and close, with the audio changing from an in-car sound to an out-of-car sound (contradicting Ox's view that Martin approached Zimmerman out of the car).

I heard it. Hard to say if I would have arrived at "coons" without the notion already existing in my brain, but I agree it's close.

[byu71]

That may be a fact, but it isn't evidence. You are right, you and I DO have extremely different understandings of the meaning of the word 'evidence.'

C'mon Robin, no court in the world would consider Robin Finderson and some others "think" they heard a racial slur as evidence. Get me a solid source who supports your assertion and I will agree with you.

[RobinFinderson]

C'mon Robin, no court in the world would consider Robin Finderson and some others "think" they heard a racial slur as evidence. Get me a solid source who supports your assertion and I will agree with you.

I don't see the point. I've conceded that it is weak evidence, and I've conceded that if I were a DA I would not try to admit this evidence into court, because I would fear that it might cloud a stronger case. I am refuting exactly ONE argument by presenting it, and that is Ox's argument that NO evidence exists suggesting a racial component to Zimmerman's actions.

I am also against the pursuit of additional charges against Zimmerman based on this being an alleged 'hate crime.' I oppose 'hate crime' laws, and would like to see them abolished. The real question, to me, is whether there is enough evidence to justify the use of this tragedy as the starting point for a discussion about the problems stemming from racial profiling.

[All-American]

1. Wrong. There is evidence that sounds like 'fucking coons' on the 911 tape. He MIGHT have said something else, but it sounds a LOT like 'fucking coons,' and this is evidence. It might not be perfect evidence, but it it is factually incorrect to say that there is 'no evidence that his actions were racially motivated.'

2. What is known from the 911 call is that Zimmerman began to pursue a child walking alone at night after Zimmerman described the child as 'running away.' The testimony of Martin's girlfriend, which fits the time-frame of the tragedy, and is every bit as credible as Zimmerman's testimony, supports Zimmerman's description that Martin was fleeing from Zimmerman, and that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin. It also suggests that Martin was terrified.

3. You keep referring to this 'original narrative.' Post some links to support what you are saying. The current racial component deals with the issue of racial profiling, which is a serious and legitimate issue faced by black Americans, and it deserves discussion. So how was the 'original narrative' about something other than racial profiling? Links to examples of what you are talking about, please.

4. An artificial frenzy over a 'wildly misrepresented narrative?' This might mean something if it was coming from someone who hasn't repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn't understand the order of events, as they occur in Zimmerman's 911 call, and who uses the wrong order of events to defend his point of view.

Don't get ahead of yourself. There is no "testimony" as of yet.

[Shaka]

He just as easily could have said, "effing kooks".