Trayvon Martin

[Indy Coug]

One thing I do believe, it is horseshit this trial is getting all this publicity. I am getting very tired of court TV moving into the mainstream of cable TV. That women who killed her mormon boyfriend and now wall to wall coverage of this.

[SoCalCoug]

I really haven't been following this trial, but I don't get all the right-wing love for Zimmerman.

He shot a black kid.

[SoCalCoug]

I think many have claimed he is culpable for his actions that caused this, but First Degree is not one of them.. But that is what they decided to charge him with. I think he should of been charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. He would of easily been convicted of this but this became a national issue (Including Obama Chiming in) with race as a over-arching part of this (Racial Profiling etc). The prosecutors were pretty much bullied into 1st Degree Murder..

The charge is 2nd degree murder, and under Florida law, the jury will be instructed they can find him guilty of that, or of any of the lesser included offenses, including manslaughter, battery, or assault.

[SoCalCoug]

On the other hand I am not convinced Zimmerman didn't end up in a position where he was truly fearing for his life.

Put himself in a position by stalking a black kid. Remember, the 911 operator asked him to stop following Trayvon long before the confrontation.

[imanihonjin]

Put himself in a position by stalking a black kid. Remember, the 911 operator asked him to stop following Trayvon long before the confrontation.

Lets suppose that you are correct that he did in fact follow the kid after the operator asked him to stop following Trayvon.....so what? He wasn't violating any law by electing no to follow the instruction of the 911 operator.

There has to be more than that to hold Zimmerman completely responsible for what happened than that. Suppose he followed Trayvon and did nothing to incite Trayvon but was attacked by TM. Then what? Just because he followed the kid and did nothing to incite him he should now be subject to having his skull bashed in?

In the end it doesn't really matter that the 911 operator told him to stand by. If he didn't do anything other than follow the kid to make sure nothing wrong was going to happen and then TM later started the physical altercation, then GZ had every right to protect himself.

[byu71]

Put himself in a position by stalking a black kid. Remember, the 911 operator asked him to stop following Trayvon long before the confrontation.

Yep, he put himself in a very bad situation and Trevon in a worse one by doing something stupid. I personally don't know though if that means he is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. I heard the legal guy for ABC, Abrahms who is no right winger (whatever a right winger is) said the prosecution has not met the burden of proof.

Even if he is acquitted there will be people who will have the opinion he shouldn't have been and of course all those who agree with the verdict if it comes out not guilty, are are right wing racists. That is why I will claim I don't agree with a not guilty. It really hurts my feelings to be called a right wing racist.

[smokymountainrain]

In the end it doesn't really matter that the 911 operator told him to stand by. If he didn't do anything other than follow the kid to make sure nothing wrong was going to happen and then TM later started the physical altercation, then GZ had every right to protect himself.

Would GZ have chosen to follow TM and put himself in a position to possibly be attacked by TM if he were not packing heat? There is no doubt in my mind that the fact that he was packing gave him the stones necessary to put himself in that position. Because Zimmerman was carrying that night, and more brazen as a result, a kid is now dead. But Zimmerman did nothing wrong. Got it.

[Indy Coug]

I haven't read one news story about the trial. My lack of interest is probably also some sort of racist indicator.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Racism.

No. They are victims of reverse racism!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151773233793653&set=a.472402603652.279863.157211518652&type=1&theater

Racism is alive a well in America and nowhere is it more obvious than in the case of George Zimmerman versus Trayvon Martin. Has America traded one kind of racism for another? We used to hear of white on black racism during the days of Jim Crow. Now, the streets of urban America are filled with mob violence of black people committing racially driven hate crimes against white people---and there is hardly a whisper. Even on this last Independence Day, celebrations were cancelled for fear of black rioting. There are those who now celebrate Independence Day as a time to act out their racist views. It appears that the poles have shifted.

[dabrockster]

The charge is 2nd degree murder, and under Florida law, the jury will be instructed they can find him guilty of that, or of any of the lesser included offenses, including manslaughter, battery, or assault.

Thanks for the correction (Not 1st degree) and the information that he could still be charged for a lesser crime. However, based on how the case is going, I have my doubts on how they will charge him.. The Prosecutors have done a piss-poor job of preparing their witnesses and in many instances they end up supporting the defense more than the prosecution..

[dabrockster]

Lets suppose that you are correct that he did in fact follow the kid after the operator asked him to stop following Trayvon.....so what? He wasn't violating any law by electing no to follow the instruction of the 911 operator.

There has to be more than that to hold Zimmerman completely responsible for what happened than that. Suppose he followed Trayvon and did nothing to incite Trayvon but was attacked by TM. Then what? Just because he followed the kid and did nothing to incite him he should now be subject to having his skull bashed in?

In the end it doesn't really matter that the 911 operator told him to stand by. If he didn't do anything other than follow the kid to make sure nothing wrong was going to happen and then TM later started the physical altercation, then GZ had every right to protect himself.

Just to muddy the waters more. Zimmerman is on record of stating he left his vehicle to get the street address which is when the altercation took place.

[imanihonjin]

Would GZ have chosen to follow TM and put himself in a position to possibly be attacked by TM if he were not packing heat? There is no doubt in my mind that the fact that he was packing gave him the stones necessary to put himself in that position. Because Zimmerman was carrying that night, and more brazen as a result, a kid is now dead. But Zimmerman did nothing wrong. Got it.

Again suppose you are right. He was more brazen and confident to follow TM because he was packing....so what? If he followed him and Trayvon started the physical altercation, GZ had every right to protect himself. If GZ started the altercation, well then that is different. Following someone while packing is not illegal and does not mean that he should have been subject to a beating and even death.

I am not saying the GZ did nothing wrong. What I am saying is that him packing, following TM, and disobeying a 911 operator could be completely irrelevant to whether he is guilty or not.

[smokymountainrain]

Again suppose you are right. He was more brazen and confident to follow TM because he was packing....so what? If he followed him and Trayvon started the physical altercation, GZ had every right to protect himself. If GZ started the altercation, well then that is different. Following someone while packing is not illegal and does not mean that he should have been subject to a beating and even death.

I am not saying the GZ did nothing wrong. What I am saying is that him packing, following TM, and disobeying a 911 operator could be completely irrelevant to whether he is guilty or not.

I don't disagree with any of that. I just find it incredibly tragic that due Zimmerman carrying a gun that night, and that gun being used that night - rather than being used to save a life or lives, the gun took the life of a kid.

It's also a shame that Zimmerman is here to tell the jury his side of the story, but Martin can't do the same.

[Eddie]

I can empathize with what Zimmerman was doing initially. I can also understand Martin being concerned about someone following him at night. I don't know what role their own past experiences and the culture of where they grew up, etc., played in all of this. But from my own experience and culture, it sure seems like neither were in the wrong until someone escalated this to a physical confrontation. Zimmerman says Martin did it. Martin isn't around to tell his side of story. Who knows what really happened?

We get a mixed message from the police all the time. We are told that they can't be everywhere at once and that they need the help of concerned citizens. Yet when a concerned citizen calls about what he views as a suspicious person in an area where there have been break ins, he is essentially told not to worry about it. So what did the police plan to do? Wait until there was another break-in or robbery and then take down another report? It gets old hearing from the police that they don't know who committed the crime and have no way of finding them, so just plan on never recovering your property. Personally, I don't necessarily fault Zimmerman for following Martin - even after the police said not to continue.

Martin is presumably walking along minding his own business and perceives that he is being followed. What should he do? Personally I would more quickly make my way to wherever I was headed. I certainly wouldn't be looking for a confrontation. I might call the police and express concern about being followed. But I don't know what Martin's past experiences had taught him. Do the police care and can they be trusted? Did he know of friends/acquaintances who were followed and then had bad things happen to them when they arrived at their destination? Did he have reason to believe someone intended him harm (outside of just being followed)? Who knows.

What I do know is that a tragedy ensued. I don't know who to blame for it. Maybe Martin wouldn't be dead if Zimmerman hadn't been carrying a gun. But maybe Zimmerman would be dead instead. Neither is acceptable. What caused this incident of two men being suspicious of each other to escalate to the level of a physical confrontation and use of deadly force? That is the question for me. To me, Martin isn't dead because Zimmerman followed him. Martin is dead because something happened to escalate the situation to a physical confrontation. Just following someone isn't reason enough for someone to be killed. So what happened?

[byu71]

I just find it incredibly tragic that due Zimmerman carrying a gun that night, and that gun being used that night - rather than being used to save a life or lives, the gun took the life of a kid.

I totally agree with you and I found it very troubling his comments about no regrets and God's will.

Maybe his lawyer told him if he expresses regret it could be an indication of guilt, but it still troubles me that he wouldn't have said something like, I wish like hades our paths hadn't crossed that night.