Trayvon Martin

[Surfah]

I'll just go ahead and point out something strange in Zimmerman's testimony. He reports to the police that the suspect is 'suspicious,' later saying something to the effect that 'they always get away.' This is the description one might give if they thought the suspect was scoping out houses to burglarize. But then he reports that the suspect seemed to be under the influence of drugs and or alcohol, which would NOT be the condition of a a serious criminal who was scoping out targets for burglary.

Obviously someone could be both drunk AND scoping out targets for burglary, but it isn't likely, and it is even less likely that the child appeared intoxicated given there was NOTHING in his system. The details support the likelihood that this was racial profiling at its worst.

Actually I'll go ahead and point out it is not that strange. A significant number of burglars are under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Typically between 40-50% from reports I have seen.

[pellegrino]

Actually I'll go ahead and point out it is not that strange. A significant number of burglars are under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Typically between 40-50% from reports I have seen.

there are a lot of dumb criminals out there.

[smokymountainrain]

Ox, as you're pointing out the facts, why not mention the fact that Zimmerman pursued the boy causing the altercation in the first place? Zimmerman pursued the boy, and based on your "facts", ended up getting his ass handed to him by a skinny teenager, so he shot the kid.

Give him 25 years.

[RobinFinderson]

Actually I'll go ahead and point out it is not that strange. A significant number of burglars are under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Typically between 40-50% from reports I have seen.

I'll correct one thing about your stat -- it obviously only counts those burglars who got caught. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the influence of a judgment impairing substance increases the likelihood of getting caught. I'll bet that the unmeasurable degree of successful burglars who perform their crimes under the influence is very low.

But this is really beside the point, and I'd rather not discuss it in the context of this tragedy. To me it seemed like a discrepancy that supports the idea that Zimmerman was racially profiling. There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that Zimmerman was racially profiling, including more than forty 911 calls in the last ten years reporting black 'crimes' such as children playing in the street. Personally, I hear 'effing coons' on the 911 tape. I don't think it sounds like 'effing tools' at all. And then there is the mere fact that the call was placed at all. Knowing now that Martin wasn't armed, had no illicit substances in his system, was on the phone with his girlfriend, and was walking through the neighborhood after stopping at a convenience store, one has to wonder what suspicious and disorderly behavior inspired the call in the first place.

[Surfah]

I'll correct one thing about your stat -- it obviously only counts those burglars who got caught. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the influence of a judgment impairing substance increases the likelihood of getting caught. I'll bet that the unmeasurable degree of successful burglars who perform their crimes under the influence is very low.

LOL.

[Tex]

As the person who was elected as, among other things, the head of the justice department, he is ultimately responsible for what they do or do not do. Some sort of comment is appropriate.

I disagree, but if you're right, I'd love to hear the President take some impromptu questions on Fast and Furious. Think that'll happen?

And it's a good one. If you're saying he should have said "No comment," I disagree. If you're saying he shouldn't have said anything that might have been construed as a commentary on race, I don't entirely disagree.

Again, I'm saying he shouldn't have said anything at all. This doesn't rise to the level of Presidential comment, and I'm surprised you disagree. Obama is not some talking head on a cable news program or your next-door neighbor, he's the President of the United States. Why in the hell is he commenting on a murder investigation that he has nothing to do with, of no national importance, in which the facts are still very fluid, in a small Florida city of 50K?

It can only complicate an already explosive issue.

While I agree with almost everything you have said in this thread, I'm not sure I would go so far as to say he shouldn't comment on race. White people aren't the only ones who are entitled to speak out on race relations. It's an issue in this country, and he's the President of the country. I would hope he has some opinions on the subject.

You have no idea if race had anything to do with this (yet), and neither does he.

[All-American]

I disagree, but if you're right, I'd love to hear the President take some impromptu questions on Fast and Furious. Think that'll happen?



Again, I'm saying he shouldn't have said anything at all. This doesn't rise to the level of Presidential comment, and I'm surprised you disagree. Obama is not some talking head on a cable news program or your next-door neighbor, he's the President of the United States. Why in the hell is he commenting on a murder investigation that he has nothing to do with, of no national importance, in which the facts are still very fluid, in a small Florida city of 50K?

It can only complicate an already explosive issue.



You have no idea if race had anything to do with this (yet), and neither does he.

Because, as you say, it is an explosive issue-- one that is quickly becoming a national one. If he had a chance to diffuse tensions, he should take it. Staying silent has a cost, too.

[fusnik]

And yes exactly my point, this is the problem - because the incident is being distorted and a fictional narrative of a helpless black boy getting offed by a vicious white guy (that WAS the public narrative pushed by the most indignant immediately after the moment) people are wasting their time and public resources over an incident that has no clearcut racial component.

He wasn't helpless?

He was a 17 year old kid trying to evade an armed adult following him in a car.

The racial component is charged through:

Georges profiling of a black youth
George comments on the 911 tape
Sanford PD dismissing George
Sanford's history with race related cases

[Tex]

Because, as you say, it is an explosive issue-- one that is quickly becoming a national one. If he had a chance to diffuse tensions, he should take it. Staying silent has a cost, too.

If you'd like to explain how what he said accomplished that, I'm all ears.

[DU Ute]

If you'd like to explain how what he said accomplished that, I'm all ears.

By reassuring people something is being done about it.

[All-American]

By reassuring people something is being done about it.

Exactly. People need to believe that the government ultimately works for them, and that it ultimately generates just results. Say what you will about this case, but Trayvon Martin will not be one of the all too many forgotten victims whose cases never see the light of day.

I do think Obama's comments will make it harder to render justice in Zimmerman's favor, should that be what the facts of the case require. In that sense, he may have overdone it. But certainly, some comment was warranted.

[Jacob]

There is apparently a witness who says that the screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman, who was beating beaten by Martin.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

[Tex]

By reassuring people something is being done about it.

I was referring to actual evidence, not just wishful thinking.

Plus, just what "something" do you think the President was suggesting should be done about it?

Exactly. People need to believe that the government ultimately works for them, and that it ultimately generates just results. Say what you will about this case, but Trayvon Martin will not be one of the all too many forgotten victims whose cases never see the light of day.

I do think Obama's comments will make it harder to render justice in Zimmerman's favor, should that be what the facts of the case require. In that sense, he may have overdone it. But certainly, some comment was warranted.

I suppose the irony of these two statements is lost on you.

[Colly Wolly]

What do you guys tell your kids to do when they are pursued or engaged by a stranger? I tell mine to run first, then fight like hell. It seems as though this is just what Martin did How in the world a 17 year old kid armed with skittles and tea gets the better of a 28 year old man is beyond me.

Bottom line to me is Zimmerman caused this conflict. He wrongly assumed a kid who was staying in the community was on drugs and committing a crime. He chose to disregard dispatch instruction and pursue the kid after calling police. He then started a physical altercation with the kid. He then shot the kid.

So we have a list of wrongful actions on the part of Zimmerman here. I'm interested I hearing what Trayvon Martin might have done wrong in all this. Wearing a hoodie? Trying to get away from an unfamiliar pursuer? Defending himself when confronted by the pursuer?

With that said, I don't buy into the racial claims arising out of the incident just yet. Zimmerman is multicultural and said to have close friends/family that are black. I'm inclined to believe that. From what I understand, it's not clear on the tapes that he used a racial slur. Plus, if it's nighttime and raining, and the kid is wearing a hoodie, it may have been hard to tell what color the kids skin was. Seems like Zimmerman was a misguided and over zealous vigilante character looking for a fight.

[oxcoug]

Ox, as you're pointing out the facts, why not mention the fact that Zimmerman pursued the boy causing the altercation in the first place? Zimmerman pursued the boy, and based on your "facts", ended up getting his ass handed to him by a skinny teenager, so he shot the kid.

Give him 25 years.

I'll say it again - I have made zero effort to defend Zimmerman's choices and I'm not actually interested in discussing them. Choosing to pull a piece and pull the trigger on a teenage kid is not defensible. I'm not defending it.

The issue for me is purely the way this incident has been seized and distorted by the opportunistic, perennially indignant types on the left.

There is no evidence that race played a central role in how this went down. If you listen to the call Zimmerman reports that he is a "black male" in a non-pejorative tone. The alleged use of the word "coon" is debatable at best - as I've pointed out even some high profile African Americans have said it sounds like it cld just as easily be "tools."

As far as I know there is also no evidence that Zimmerman "confronted" Trayvon - he followed him (which was pointless and stupid), but the testimony of the eyewitness and the facts reported by the police that Trayvon instigated the physical confrontation.

The outrage here is that a vigilante adult pulled a gun on a teenager and needlessly and tragically ended his life.

But we are being forcefed a narrative that an empowered man (they tried to sell us WHITE man until the pictures gave that the lie) hunted down a child and killed him in cold blood while the child screamed for help. In fact, the child assaulted the man and the man screamed for help and the man was not white.

The distortions have produced a public frenzy - and oh goody they now have Farrakhan calling for "retribution." The deliberate, politicized misrepresentation of the facts is almost certain to result in more harm, more hate and possibly more lives lost.

But it's exactly what Jesse Jackson wants.