Stand Your Ground

[Uncle Ted]

How much of that is because they're Swiss and they have a legacy of non-aggression, rather than the fact that they have guns?

Maybe we should require every man between the ages of 21 and 32 to undergo some form of military training and serve in the military. Also, once discharged serve in the US national guard so everyone can appreciate (rather than seemingly fear) guns like the Swiss. And I am all for non-aggression and staying the hell out of other people's countries. I guess folks like myself and Ron Paul must be Swiss. Cool.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Maybe we should require every man between the ages of 21 and 32 to undergo some form of military training and serve in the military. Also, once discharged serve in the US national guard so everyone can appreciate (rather than seemingly fear) guns like the Swiss. And I am all for non-aggression and staying the hell out of other people's countries. I guess folks like myself and Ron Paul must be Swiss. Cool.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,90736,00.html

[Tim]

Honest question for those who have taken a concealed carry course or permit exam: Is it purely a written exam, or is there a 1-on-1 interview as part of the test? Is there any psychological examination included? Any discussion of personal biases?

[Uncle Ted]

If I didn't know better I'd think you were trying to demonstrate my point. The popular argument of conflating guns and other weapons is a simple demonstration of the lack of respect that some gun owners have for guns. They're different, and admitting that is a good step toward reasonable laws controlling their sale and use.

If I didn't know better I'd think you totally missed my sarcasm. The only way to totally remove the threat of weapons is to remove them all (or to lock everyone in a separate rubber room ). Most guns used by criminals are obtained from illegal sources (this study claims as high as 79%).

[Uncle Ted]

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...,90736,00.html

good point.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Bingo. I'm an expert marksman, but I've never personally owned a gun. I'm not afraid of guns, I don't even have a problem with most people owning guns (though I don't see the need for most people to tote one around everywhere they go). The problem is all the "slippery slope" bullshit that keeps some reasonable controls being put in place.

Hey, me TOO! Well, I'm probably not an expert marksman, but the last time I went to a shooting range I emptied a 9mm clip into the head of the bad guy holding a woman hostage on my target poster, all at a considerable distance, and much to the surprise of my gun-owning friend. I have also taken and passed an NRA gun safety course.

[il Padrino Ute]

I'm not trying to sound snarky, even though it may appear that way, but I would suggest that everyone is a law-abiding citizen until they're not one. The criminal with a gun was a law-abiding citizen until he became a criminal. What differentiates, in your mind, a law-abiding citizen who'll never become a criminal and one who will become one?

Using that logic, nobody should be allowed to get a driver license because people use cars while committing crimes.

I would suggest that criminals become criminals before they get a gun. There is already a law in place that is supposed to enure that only law abiding citizens are allowed to have a gun. That's what the federal background check does. Criminals don't go through the legal process to get that gun. Just because a few slip through is no reason to deny others the right to carry.

[Uncle Ted]

Honest question for those who have taken a concealed carry course or permit exam: Is it purely a written exam, or is there a 1-on-1 interview as part of the test? Is there any psychological examination included? Any discussion of personal biases?

The courses vary from state to state but to get a concealed handgun license in Texas I had to:

1. Be 21 years old. (Members and former members of the armed forces must be 18.)
2. Have a clean criminal history, including military service and recent juvenile records.
3. Not be under a protective order.
4. Not be chemically dependent.
5. Not be of unsound mind.
6. Not be delinquent in paying fines, fees, child support, etc.
7. Be eligible to purchase a handgun by completing the NICS check.

The above is checked when the state does a background check.

The course it self was about 12 hours (it can be as much as 15 hours) of classroom studying law, nonviolent conflict resolution, and proper handgun use and storage. Very little was covered about shooting but on the range I had to demonstrate I could hit a target with reasonable accuracy (20 shots at three yards, 20 at seven yards, and 10 a fifteen yards). There were actually a few people in my class that failed this.

I had to take and pass a written exam that covered all we had learned in the 12 hours of classroom learning and from a book that covered the laws.

I had to submit fingerprints to both the State of Texas and the FBI.

I had to provide all the necessary information for a background check. i.e:

(1) Social Security Number
(2) Valid Texas Driver License
(3) Current demographic, address, contact, and employment information
(4) Residential and employment information for the last five years
(5) Information regarding any psychiatric, drug, alcohol, or criminal history
(6) And pay, I think it was, $150 for the background check.

The main reason I got a CHL was not because I wanted to carry a handgun everywhere I go (I rarely carry a handgun) but so I didn't get thrown in jail while when I had a handgun in my car (e.g. when I went to the range or on a trip). In other words, it let's the cops know that I am one of the "good guys" even though my skin coloring is a little darker than y'alls.

[Pheidippides]

The main reason I got a CHL was not because I wanted to carry a handgun everywhere I go (I rarely carry a handgun) but so I didn't get thrown in jail while when I had a handgun in my car (e.g. when I went to the range or on a trip). In other words, it let's the cops know that I am one of the "good guys" even though my skin coloring is a little darker than y'alls.

This is precisely why I am getting one.

Also, I have direct confirmation of the positive effects a CCL has when interacting with law enforcement in certain states.

[il Padrino Ute]

Bingo. I'm an expert marksman, but I've never personally owned a gun. I'm not afraid of guns, I don't even have a problem with most people owning guns (though I don't see the need for most people to tote one around everywhere they go). The problem is all the "slippery slope" bullshit that keeps some reasonable controls being put in place.

Slippery slope bullshit? Are you saying that if you give the government an inch, it won't try to take a mile?

[DU Ute]

The courses vary from state to state but to get a concealed handgun license in Texas I had to:

1. Be 21 years old. (Members and former members of the armed forces must be 18.)
2. Have a clean criminal history, including military service and recent juvenile records.
3. Not be under a protective order.
4. Not be chemically dependent.
5. Not be of unsound mind.
6. Not be delinquent in paying fines, fees, child support, etc.
7. Be eligible to purchase a handgun by completing the NICS check.

The above is checked when the state does a background check.

How do they check #4 and #5?

[Indy Coug]

How do they check #4 and #5?

You sign a blank line at the bottom of a document attesting that you are neither chemically dependent or of unsound mind.

[Uncle Ted]

Also, I have direct confirmation of the positive effects a CCL has when interacting with law enforcement in certain states.

I have direct confirmation as well. In fact, I haven't had a speeding ticket since I have had my CHL/CCL even though I have been pulled over a few times and given warnings. In both cases after I handed the cop my CHL along with my drivers license the tone of the conversation from his end quickly changed and we started talking guns. In one case I noticed the cop took his hand off his gun hoister and never put it back. Criminals are not going to take the time to take a CHL course. It's the good guys that will.

[Uncle Ted]

How do they check #4 and #5?

Via that background check that costs $150(?) and the six months of waiting.

Personally, I would like to see a background check be given for a drivers license as well given all the insane driving I have seen on the roads. I suspect cars kill more people than guns.

[Sullyute]

Maybe we should require every man between the ages of 21 and 32 to undergo some form of military training and serve in the military. Also, once discharged serve in the US national guard so everyone can appreciate (rather than seemingly fear) guns like the Swiss. And I am all for non-aggression and staying the hell out of other people's countries. I guess folks like myself and Ron Paul must be Swiss. Cool.

I would support something like this.