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  • I hesitate to put this here, because it goes well beyond ObamaCare. My son sent me a copy of this article by Atul Gawande (a surgeon) in the New Yorker.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...ign=pockethits

    It is loooooong, but well worth the read. Essentially, he argues that our health care system is grossly inefficient in that we provide too much care, and in many cases this is not only expensive, but dangerous.

    The researchers called it “low-value care.” But, really, it was no-value care. They studied how often people received one of twenty-six tests or treatments that scientific and professional organizations have consistently determined to have no benefit or to be outright harmful. Their list included doing an EEG for an uncomplicated headache (EEGs are for diagnosing seizure disorders, not headaches), or doing a CT or MRI scan for low-back pain in patients without any signs of a neurological problem (studies consistently show that scanning such patients adds nothing except cost), or putting a coronary-artery stent in patients with stable cardiac disease (the likelihood of a heart attack or death after five years is unaffected by the stent). In just a single year, the researchers reported, twenty-five to forty-two per cent of Medicare patients received at least one of the twenty-six useless tests and treatments.
    Virtually every family in the country, the research indicates, has been subject to overtesting and overtreatment in one form or another. The costs appear to take thousands of dollars out of the paychecks of every household each year. Researchers have come to refer to financial as well as physical “toxicities” of inappropriate care—including reduced spending on food, clothing, education, and shelter. Millions of people are receiving drugs that aren’t helping them, operations that aren’t going to make them better, and scans and tests that do nothing beneficial for them, and often cause harm.
    We also overdiagnose:

    Overtesting has also created a new, unanticipated problem: overdiagnosis. This isn’t misdiagnosis—the erroneous diagnosis of a disease. This is the correct diagnosis of a disease that is never going to bother you in your lifetime. We’ve long assumed that if we screen a healthy population for diseases like cancer or coronary-artery disease, and catch those diseases early, we’ll be able to treat them before they get dangerously advanced, and save lives in large numbers. But it hasn’t turned out that way. For instance, cancer screening with mammography, ultrasound, and blood testing has dramatically increased the detection of breast, thyroid, and prostate cancer during the past quarter century. We’re treating hundreds of thousands more people each year for these diseases than we ever have. Yet only a tiny reduction in death, if any, has resulted.
    He covers some fascinating case studies, including a study he did comparing health-care costs of two cities in Texas where one city (McAllen) had a system where doctors were grossly over-prescribing tests and treatments because they owned the healthcare companies and were getting rich (Looks like Texas is a mess when it comes to health case - Uncle Ted take note).

    Six years ago, in “The Cost Conundrum,” I compared McAllen with another Texas border town, El Paso. They had the same demographics—the same levels of severe poverty, poor health, illegal immigration—but El Paso had half the per-capita Medicare costs and the same or better results. The difference was that McAllen’s doctors were ordering more of almost everything—diagnostic testing, hospital admissions, procedures. Medicare patients in McAllen received forty per cent more surgery, almost twice as many bladder scopes and heart studies, and two to three times as many pacemakers, cardiac bypass operations, carotid endarterectomies, and coronary stents. Per-capita spending on home-health services was five times higher than in El Paso and more than half of what many American communities spent on all health care. The amount of unnecessary care appeared to be huge.

    What explained this? Our piecework payment system—rewarding doctors for the quantity of care provided, regardless of the results—was a key factor. The system gives ample reward for overtreatment and no reward for eliminating it. But these inducements applied everywhere. Why did McAllen succumb to them more than other medical communities did? Doctors there described a profit-maximizing medical culture. Specialists not only made money from the services they provided; many also owned stakes in home-health-care agencies, surgery and imaging centers, and the local for-profit hospital, which brought them even bigger returns from health-care overuse.
    Anyway, he argues that while there is much more to be done, ObamaCare has helped to correct this problem.

    The test of health-care reform, I wrote, was whether McAllen or El Paso would become the new norm. Would McAllen’s costs come down or El Paso’s go up? Now that it has been five years since the passage of the Affordable Care Act, I thought I’d find out. I returned to the economist Jonathan Skinner, of the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice, who had provided the earlier analysis of the Medicare data, and worked with him to get a sense of what recent data reveal. As it turns out, the cost of a Medicare patient has flattened across the country, El Paso included. U.S. health-care inflation is the lowest it has been in more than fifty years. Most startling of all, McAllen has been changing its ways. Between 2009 and 2012, its costs dropped almost three thousand dollars per Medicare recipient. Skinner projects the total savings to taxpayers to have reached almost half a billion dollars by the end of 2014. The hope of reform had been to simply “bend the curve.” This was savings on an unprecedented scale.

    Skinner showed me the details. In-patient hospital visits dropped by about ten per cent—and physicians reduced the mad amounts of home-health-care spending by nearly forty per cent. McAllen’s spending on ambulance rides—previously the highest in the country—dropped by almost forty per cent, too.
    The passage of the Affordable Care Act, in 2010, created opportunities for physicians to practice this kind of dedicated care. The law allows any group of physicians with five thousand or more Medicare patients to contract directly with the government as an “accountable-care organization,” and to receive up to sixty per cent of any savings they produce. In McAllen, two primary-care groups, with a total of nearly thirteen thousand patients, formed to take advantage of the deal. One, as it happens, was led by Jose Peña, the Doctors Hospital at Renaissance internist. Two years later, Medicare reported that Peña’s team had markedly improved control of its patients’ diabetes; patients also had dramatically lower emergency-room visits and hospital admissions. And the two McAllen accountable-care organizations together managed to save Medicare a total of twenty-six million dollars. About sixty per cent of that went back to the groups. It wasn’t all profit—achieving the results had meant installing expensive data-tracking systems and hiring extra staff. But even after overhead doctors in one group took home almost eight hundred thousand dollars each (some of which they shared with their mid-level staff). It was proving to be a very attractive way to practice.
    Would love to here some opinions from our board doctors on this.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      I hesitate to put this here, because it goes well beyond ObamaCare. My son sent me a copy of this article by Atul Gawande (a surgeon) in the New Yorker.

      http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...ign=pockethits

      It is loooooong, but well worth the read. Essentially, he argues that our health care system is grossly inefficient in that we provide too much care, and in many cases this is not only expensive, but dangerous.





      We also overdiagnose:



      He covers some fascinating case studies, including a study he did comparing health-care costs of two cities in Texas where one city (McAllen) had a system where doctors were grossly over-prescribing tests and treatments because they owned the healthcare companies and were getting rich (Looks like Texas is a mess when it comes to health case - Uncle Ted take note).



      Anyway, he argues that while there is much more to be done, ObamaCare has helped to correct this problem.





      Would love to here some opinions from our board doctors on this.
      I need to read the article. Gawande has several books about the practice of medicine (in addition to his scientific publications) which are good. The McCallen example has been discussed previously as an example of over-utilization/incentivization.
      "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

      "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        He covers some fascinating case studies, including a study he did comparing health-care costs of two cities in Texas where one city (McAllen) had a system where doctors were grossly over-prescribing tests and treatments because they owned the healthcare companies and were getting rich (Looks like Texas the liberal community of McAllen, Mexico is a mess when it comes to health case pretty much everything - Uncle Ted take note).
        FIFY.

        The good news is that the good folks at Anonymous are working to clean this all up...

        [YOUTUBE]nLejmvOQGmQ[/YOUTUBE]

        God bless them.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment


        • More Bailouts? Hel let's hope not.

          Apparently the Administration is planning on bailing out the failure incurred by Obamacare. Let's hope not.

          http://nypost.com/2015/11/20/a-new-t...cares-failure/
          "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

          Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

          Comment


          • Meh, it was part of the bad original deal with Obamacare to ensure that insurance companies would be protected from a certain amount of losses. It was a bad deal, but that ship has sailed.

            Comment


            • No surprise that selling insurance on the exchanges is a huge losing proposition, look at Arches here in Utah. Let's see, anybody can sign up with no underwriting and you're selling insurance to people with no employer-based insurance who are taking a special interest in going to the website to sign up specifically because they likely know they want to use it.

              Seems to me that unless they collect in the ballpark of 2K per month per enrollee they are going to lose money. There isn't enough of a healthy person subsidy with these plans.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Topper View Post
                Apparently the Administration is planning on bailing out the failure incurred by Obamacare. Let's hope not.

                http://nypost.com/2015/11/20/a-new-t...cares-failure/
                How does this work? Was the $.19/dollar that the insurers are receiving via the law's "Risk Corridors" legislated in the original law? My belief is that it was but that the reality outlined by United Healthcare and the imminent bankruptcies of the co-ops indicate that the amounts insurers are charging for their premiums are not adequate given the new requirements of the law and the chance for gaming, signing up for insurance only when needed. So insurers will have no choice to significantly increase premiums IF the Republicans stand firm against the efforts for more money for the Risk Corridors. Personally, one of the things I actually like about ObamaCare is that it has to pay for the cost of the health care. I am a fan of limiting the risk corridors so that we have a more proper passing along of these costs to the consumer so that he/she knows moreso how much healthcare costs.
                Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                -General George S. Patton

                I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                -DOCTOR Wuap

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                  How does this work? Was the $.19/dollar that the insurers are receiving via the law's "Risk Corridors" legislated in the original law? My belief is that it was but that the reality outlined by United Healthcare and the imminent bankruptcies of the co-ops indicate that the amounts insurers are charging for their premiums are not adequate given the new requirements of the law and the chance for gaming, signing up for insurance only when needed. So insurers will have no choice to significantly increase premiums IF the Republicans stand firm against the efforts for more money for the Risk Corridors. Personally, one of the things I actually like about ObamaCare is that it has to pay for the cost of the health care. I am a fan of limiting the risk corridors so that we have a more proper passing along of these costs to the consumer so that he/she knows moreso how much healthcare costs.
                  The entire intent was to cause insurance companies to fail so government would then say, "see private insurance cannot provide, we need to turn to a single source payer."

                  The "mandates" are for uninsured make the risk corridors unsustainable. The objective of the architects is to eventually have a single payer system, which ultimately becomes another tiered system after wealthy people become dissatisfied with the marginal care afforded by a single payer system. It is a vicious circle.
                  "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                  Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Topper View Post
                    The entire intent was to cause insurance companies to fail so government would then say, "see private insurance cannot provide, we need to turn to a single source payer."

                    The "mandates" are for uninsured make the risk corridors unsustainable. The objective of the architects is to eventually have a single payer system, which ultimately becomes another tiered system after wealthy people become dissatisfied with the marginal care afforded by a single payer system. It is a vicious circle.
                    Hiliarycare would have prohibited this.

                    Comment


                    • United Healthcare has indicated that it will be dropping out of the individual insurance market.

                      In order to cover their payouts/expenses in the individual market, they have to increase premiums. The increasing premiums scare off an increasing number of healthy people who decide they're better off risking it rather than paying out $1,200+ a month for insurance with a $5k deductible. The insurance companies either have to drop out of increase the premiums more. Insurance companies are bailing on it.

                      I still have my Humana plan that I started up one month after Obamacare was passed in which I pay $220 a month. An insurance guy told me a few months ago that it was going to probably be cancelled -- yet I still got a renewal with the premium increasing by $20 or so. The plan has a huge deductible, but I save $1,000 a month. I'll take that given that the deductible is only $5k more per year.
                      Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

                      Comment


                      • Rubio pushing to stop the Risk Corridors bailout. This is just bad legislation.
                        "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

                        "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

                        Comment


                        • Obamacare's on death's doorstep?

                          http://spectator.org/articles/64741/...thousand-facts
                          "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                          Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

                          Comment


                          • The CBO issues report on Obamacare and it isn't good.

                            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...port-says.html

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Nakoma View Post
                              The CBO issues report on Obamacare and it isn't good.

                              http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...port-says.html
                              How did we not see this coming?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by imanihonjin View Post
                                How did we not see this coming?
                                Some did. I think that's why Pelosi said Obamacare would allow people to escape their job.

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