Springville man shoots and kills intruder

[thesaint258]

Hmm, Utah doesn't have a castle doctrine law yet?

Utah does have the castle doctrine. Right now, the law states that in a civil case, it is presumed that the homeowner acted reasonably and had a reasonable fear of imminent peril if the victim's entry was violent or by stealth. It looks like the new law takes that a step further.

[UtahDan]

It's tragic because the intruder wasn't even armed. He was stupid to threaten the man with a gun. If I had been in the same situation, I probably would have shot the intruder also, but I don't think I would have happy about it.

Agree with this. A man is dead and another man has to live with having killed him. That guy isn't thumping his chest today. He feels sick and will for a long time. The dead guy has a mom and a dad who didn't ask for this. This is the definition of a tragedy.

[Omaha 680]

The article mentions that the homeowner went into his closet to "get a coat" and emerged with the 9mm pistol. It could have been in a lock box or a safe.

Lockboxes with thumbprint or keypad locks are quickly accessible, as they should be. If your defensive weapon isn't able to be accessed quickly, what's the point?

I echo what has been said. It is sad for the intruder's family that he is dead, but the father acted correctly. When someone is threatening you with a gun and demanding you go with them, you take him out if you have the chance. At that point it's either your family or him. It's unfortunately the choice a criminal forces upon you when he threatens you with a weapon.

Stories like this are the reason we have guns and my wife is comfortable using them. It allows me to sleep when I travel.

[kccougar]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1941...cid=featured-2

This KSL story includes quotes from a neighbor and friend of the shooter - Colby Clawson. Apparently, his home was one of the others that the intruder tried to enter first.

The intruder might not have been shot had he gotten in at the Clawson's home, but he likely would have been carried out with his arm in a sling.

[venkman]

A bigger tragedy could have occurred if the intruder actually had a gun and the homeowner didn't. The homeowner did exactly the right thing and the intruder deserved what he got.

Eff yeah, hooray for the second ammendment. In Britain the homeowner would be put away for life for protecting his family in this manner.

[Non Sequitur]

A bigger tragedy could have occurred if the intruder actually had a gun and the homeowner didn't. The homeowner did exactly the right thing and the intruder deserved what he got.

Eff yeah, hooray for the second ammendment. In Britain the homeowner would be put away for life for protecting his family in this manner.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. Someone died. Why are you dancing in the streets?

[Uncle Ted]

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. Someone died. Why are you dancing in the streets?

It is tragic that Armando Martinez Jr died. It also tragic that the family was threaten for their lives by this man. It would have been even more tragic if he actually had a gun, like he allegedly said he did, and hurt and/or killed members of this family. Fortunately that didn't happen.

As Venkman correctly points out in other countries the father of a family may have been arrested for pulling a weapon (even with a common kitchen knife) on an intruder. Having the freedom of being able to defend myself and my family is something worth "dancing in the streets" about, IMHO. So what exactly is it that you don't get?

[cowboy]

Hooray for the 2nd Amendment!

Eff yeah, hooray for the second ammendment. In Britain the homeowner would be put away for life for protecting his family in this manner.

Having the freedom of being able to defend myself and my family is something worth "dancing in the streets" about, IMHO. So what exactly is it that you don't get?

This is a lot like a head-on collision where a high school kid passes on a double line, runs straight into a suburban, and he dies while the family in the suburban is fine because they wore seatbelts. Are they glad they're alive and were able to protect themselves? Absolutely. Is it tragic? Absolutely. Will anybody involved be cheering about any of this ever? Nope.

A drunk guy made a few stupid choices, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die. In my mind that's kind of like saying everyone who breaks and enters deserves the death penalty. If the perp was the drunken teenage son of anyone on this board, we would all be expressing condolences and talking about how good kids do stupid things. And we would all agree it was a tragedy.

Even if you insist that he deserved it, and we agree to disagree on that, this family will be changed because of this, and not in a good way. The family will hear every noise and rattle in the night for a long time to come, and there will be a lot of sleepless nights in their future. Even worse, the father will always wonder if there is something he could have done to avoid taking a life. I doubt he comes out of this healthy without a good deal of counseling, and I'm pretty sure he isn't celebrating and dancing in the street.

I'm a gun owner. I keep a gun locked in my closet because it makes me feel better about leaving my wife alone when I travel, and I'm glad I have that right. I also hope like hell that coyotes and sick cows are the only things it ever has to kill, because there won't be anything to celebrate if it ever takes a human life.

[jay santos]

I'm on the liberal side of things related to this issue. The intruder did not deserve to die. But the homeowner did the right thing. I know I would pull the trigger and shoot to kill in that situation. You protect your family first and if someone unstable invades your home in the night, says he has a gun, and is threatening you, it's a no-brainer.

[Pheidippides]

I'm a gun owner. I keep a gun locked in my closet because it makes me feel better about leaving my wife alone when I travel, and I'm glad I have that right. I also hope like hell that coyotes and sick cows are the only things it ever has to kill, because their won't be anything to celebrate if it ever takes a human life.

You speak for me. I don't even want to celebrate the right to have the guns I do because of the implications of that right: that I may need to use them.

Would I have pulled the trigger? Absolutely. And thereafter my first call would have been to the police, and my second would have been to a psychiatrist. I don't know how you live with the knowledge that you've killed somebody, however justified, and there are no winners here.

[UtahDan]

This is a lot like a head-on collision where a high school kid passes on a double line, runs straight into a suburban, and he dies while the family in the suburban is fine because they wore seatbelts. Are they glad they're alive and were able to protect themselves? Absolutely. Is it tragic? Absolutely. Will anybody involved be cheering about any of this ever? Nope.

A drunk guy made a few stupid choices, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die. In my mind that's kind of like saying everyone who breaks and enters deserves the death penalty. If the perp was the drunken teenage son of anyone on this board, we would all be expressing condolences and talking about how good kids do stupid things. And we would all agree it was a tragedy.

Even if you insist that he deserved it, and we agree to disagree on that, this family will be changed because of this, and not in a good way. The family will hear every noise and rattle in the night for a long time to come, and there will be a lot of sleepless nights in their future. Even worse, the father will always wonder if there is something he could have done to avoid taking a life. I doubt he comes out of this healthy without a good deal of counseling, and I'm pretty sure he isn't celebrating and dancing in the street.

I'm a gun owner. I keep a gun locked in my closet because it makes me feel better about leaving my wife alone when I travel, and I'm glad I have that right. I also hope like hell that coyotes and sick cows are the only things it ever has to kill, because their won't be anything to celebrate if it ever takes a human life.

Perfectly expressed.

[venkman]

I'm on the liberal side of things related to this issue. The intruder did not deserve to die. But the homeowner did the right thing. I know I would pull the trigger and shoot to kill in that situation. You protect your family first and if someone unstable invades your home in the night, says he has a gun, and is threatening you, it's a no-brainer.

The homeowner did the right thing, and you would have shot to kill, but the intruder didn't deserve to die? That doesn't make sense. If the intruder didn't deserve to die then the homeowner shouldn't have shot him or he should have waited for the intruder to draw a weapon before shooting.

I'm not celebrating this man's death. Sounds like he had some issues. If he had family that loved him I feel bad for them. I don't want to shoot anyone or take a life either, but if someone breaks into my home, claims they have a weapon, and threatens me and my family, then yes, they deserve to die.

[jay santos]

The homeowner did the right thing, and you would have shot to kill, but the intruder didn't deserve to die? That doesn't make sense. If the intruder didn't deserve to die then the homeowner shouldn't have shot him or he should have waited for the intruder to draw a weapon before shooting.

I'm not celebrating this man's death. Sounds like he had some issues. If he had family that loved him I feel bad for them. I don't want to shoot anyone or take a life either, but if someone breaks into my home, claims they have a weapon, and threatens me and my family, then yes, they deserve to die.

The difference is probably just semantics.

I like what cowboy said. If the intruder was arrested before getting shot, he would not deserve the penalty.

But the homeowner is not a judge. He has to protect his family.

[Tim]

Agreed. Home invasions make me think of the Petit family and what an awful thing that was. I think he did the right thing.

I'm curious about the father in the Cheshire case. First off, what a horrific tragedy it would be to lose all of your family like that. Unforgivable, in my view (and in his view, too). I noticed on the wikipedia page for the case, though, that the two suspects attempted to point the finger at the father, but it doesn't say anything about how the investigators were able to rule him out as a suspect. It seems like in a case like this the first place you'd look is at the lone remaining survivor, but I would imagine that the fact he was beaten by the suspects ruled him out right off the bat. Any other recollections of the case in regard to the father?

Please note that I'm not insinuating that the father was involved. I'm sure that he wasn't. I just want to understand more about the facts that were actually used to clear him from suspicion.

[smokymountainrain]

This is a lot like a head-on collision where a high school kid passes on a double line, runs straight into a suburban, and he dies while the family in the suburban is fine because they wore seatbelts. Are they glad they're alive and were able to protect themselves? Absolutely. Is it tragic? Absolutely. Will anybody involved be cheering about any of this ever? Nope.

A drunk guy made a few stupid choices, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die. In my mind that's kind of like saying everyone who breaks and enters deserves the death penalty. If the perp was the drunken teenage son of anyone on this board, we would all be expressing condolences and talking about how good kids do stupid things. And we would all agree it was a tragedy.

Even if you insist that he deserved it, and we agree to disagree on that, this family will be changed because of this, and not in a good way. The family will hear every noise and rattle in the night for a long time to come, and there will be a lot of sleepless nights in their future. Even worse, the father will always wonder if there is something he could have done to avoid taking a life. I doubt he comes out of this healthy without a good deal of counseling, and I'm pretty sure he isn't celebrating and dancing in the street.

I'm a gun owner. I keep a gun locked in my closet because it makes me feel better about leaving my wife alone when I travel, and I'm glad I have that right. I also hope like hell that coyotes and sick cows are the only things it ever has to kill, because there won't be anything to celebrate if it ever takes a human life.

Excellent post. I too have guns - they are for shooting birds and missing them far too often. It's always hard to know what one would in a similar situation as that father found himself, but I hope I would do everything humanly possible to avoid shooting the guy. I hope I woul try to scare him with the gun - either make to make him stay while the cops arrived or to make him run and if he did neither, I hope I would try to hit him with the damn gun rather than shoot. If I did shoot, I hope it would be only to wound, certainly not to kill. Again, that would be my hope. Put me in the situation where I have to think quick, it's very much possible nothing that I hope I would do, would I actually do.

It is indeed a tragedy that an everyday Joe dad had to shoot and kill another man to protect his family. It's tragic that somebody lost a loved one that night. Thank goodness everday Joe and his family are safe. I hope Joe and his family have learned that even in Springville you need to lock your effing doors.