North Korea launched a long range missle.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Israeli existence is equal to Palestine's annihilation. Hmmmm. As I was saying to Lebowski before, I just don't remember Israel getting rid of a country called Palestine. Now I am starting to doubt myself.

That's good. Baby steps.

[UtahDan]

I honestly don't care who has a nuke. For me, it all boils down to energy. The world needs nuclear energy.

Why would NK nuke us? If we are so afraid of being nuked, we need to rethink the way we treat other nations.

How nice or not nice we are to other states has nothing to do with what they do. They act in their own self interest just as we do, whatever the window dressing is. Whether it is nice or not is just the gloss someone puts on it later. NK is behaving badly because we mistreated them at some point in the past? Oy vey.

The Russians have it right in this regard: ignore what others say to you and pay attention to what their capabilities are. But maybe the craziest least predictable despot in the world just wants a nuclear reactor. And some satellites. Could be.

[MindfulCoug]

Look, I agree that the whole "who struck John" is not useful. If you believe that Israel wants to possess a promised land from Egypt to Iraq (or beyond) and that the USA aspires to world domination we just don't have enough common ground to have an intelligent conversation with each other on the subject of nuclear proliferation or much else relative to international relations. If you really do believe these things then I suppose I understand why you think as you do.

So i have to admit that Israel has never claimed any promised land whatsoever and it should not be held accountable for its nuclear weaponry enrichment and that whatever the US has done whether politically or militarily were merely self defense strategies and had not she pushed the button ,she would have been swallowed up by the rest of the world ,to achieve the common ground and have an "intelligent" discussion with you ?????

I would rather go and discuss Kim-Jon-I beauty secret with Utestar!

[byu71]

So i have to admit that Israel has never claimed any promised land whatsoever and it should not be held accountable for its nuclear weaponry enrichment and that whatever the US has done whether politically or militarily were merely self defense strategies and had not she pushed the button ,she would have been swallowed up by the rest of the world ,to achieve the common ground and have an "intelligent" discussion with you ?????

I would rather go and discuss Kim-Jon-I beauty secret with Utestar!

Mindful, you are one of my favorites on here. I am an avowed conservative and I am not to fond of your leaders, perhaps you can relate it to how you probably feel about Bush.

However, I want to let you know I am happy you are on this board with us.

[YOhio]

I would rather go and discuss Kim-Jon-I beauty secret with Utestar!

lol! Even mindful knows how pathetic UteStar's fashion sense is. Some things need no translation.

[MindfulCoug]

Mindful, you are one of my favorites on here. I am an avowed conservative and I am not to fond of your leaders, perhaps you can relate it to how you probably feel about Bush.

However, I want to let you know I am happy you are on this board with us.

No problem byu71 .No leader is supposed to be loved .

And thank you ,i am impressed by your level of conservativeness too.

[wuapinmon]

I would be less worried about NK using their technology themselves and more worried about them becoming a nuclear arms dealer to rogue states/groups. I would not want weaponized missiles in the hands of many a country....Iran, Syria, Sudan, Venezuela, for example.

NK needs cash....I imagine some would pay a pretty penny for off-the-shelf tactical nukes.

The June 2008 edition of Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists says that Russia is estimated to have around 14,000 nukes, far more than the 9,610 that April/May issue of that same year tallies for the US.

As to our being the only nation to use them, we used them on a nation that attacked us, that refused to surrender, that showed it was willing to kill itself rather than submit, and that some estimates calculated would cost 1 million American casualties to invade. We are still awarding Purple Hearts today that were manufactured in anticipation of the invasion of the main islands. As both of my grandfathers were in the Pacific Theater (Master Sgt. Infantry, Torpedo Bomber Pilot), I am grateful that we did use them, because odds are at least one of them would've been killed, along with lots of your granddads, and lots of Japanese more than died in the two bombings would've died. The recovery would've been brutal, and many, if not most, of us wouldn't be around. The loss of 1 million men from the population would've had huge consequences relating to viability in the face of the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the massive borrowing of capital it would've required to invade, the huge morale hit. We were totally justified in using them, though I do wonder what would've happened had we used the second one on Mt. Fuji.

[BlueHair]

I would be less worried about NK using their technology themselves and more worried about them becoming a nuclear arms dealer to rogue states/groups. I would not want weaponized missiles in the hands of many a country....Iran, Syria, Sudan, Venezuela, for example.

NK needs cash....I imagine some would pay a pretty penny for off-the-shelf tactical nukes.

The June 2008 edition of Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists says that Russia is estimated to have around 14,000 nukes, far more than the 9,610 that April/May issue of that same year tallies for the US.

As to our being the only nation to use them, we used them on a nation that attacked us, that refused to surrender, that showed it was willing to kill itself rather than submit, and that some estimates calculated would cost 1 million American casualties to invade. We are still awarding Purple Hearts today that were manufactured in anticipation of the invasion of the main islands. As both of my grandfathers were in the Pacific Theater (Master Sgt. Infantry, Torpedo Bomber Pilot), I am grateful that we did use them, because odds are at least one of them would've been killed, along with lots of your granddads, and lots of Japanese more than died in the two bombings would've died. The recovery would've been brutal, and many, if not most, of us wouldn't be around. The loss of 1 million men from the population would've had huge consequences relating to viability in the face of the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the massive borrowing of capital it would've required to invade, the huge morale hit. We were totally justified in using them, though I do wonder what would've happened had we used the second one on Mt. Fuji.

I just want to clarify that I don't think bombing Japan was the wrong thing to do. My main point is that I can see why other nations don't like us, and are justified in that point of view. I know many people who truly believe Bush's reasoning of "They hate us because we are free". That may be true, but it's not the only reason they hate us. Many of us think the US is doing nothing but good in the world. Like UtahDan said, we are all doing things in our own selfish interests.

[MindfulCoug]

I would be less worried about NK using their technology themselves and more worried about them becoming a nuclear arms dealer to rogue states/groups. I would not want weaponized missiles in the hands of many a country....Iran, Syria, Sudan, Venezuela, for example.

NK needs cash....I imagine some would pay a pretty penny for off-the-shelf tactical nukes.

The June 2008 edition of Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists says that Russia is estimated to have around 14,000 nukes, far more than the 9,610 that April/May issue of that same year tallies for the US.

As to our being the only nation to use them, we used them on a nation that attacked us, that refused to surrender, that showed it was willing to kill itself rather than submit, and that some estimates calculated would cost 1 million American casualties to invade. We are still awarding Purple Hearts today that were manufactured in anticipation of the invasion of the main islands. As both of my grandfathers were in the Pacific Theater (Master Sgt. Infantry, Torpedo Bomber Pilot), I am grateful that we did use them, because odds are at least one of them would've been killed, along with lots of your granddads, and lots of Japanese more than died in the two bombings would've died. The recovery would've been brutal, and many, if not most, of us wouldn't be around. The loss of 1 million men from the population would've had huge consequences relating to viability in the face of the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the massive borrowing of capital it would've required to invade, the huge morale hit. We were totally justified in using them, though I do wonder what would've happened had we used the second one on Mt. Fuji.

Consider me a naive ,but is there any specific reason why Japanese warriors should not fight against their enemies until the last one loses his/her life? were they supposed to stop fighting for the sake of their adversary's well being ?
What i have understood from Utahdan post is ,the warrior codon in Japanese genome was not easily disintegrated ,so you had to apply unke to fix it for them genetically.

Reading your post ,i am overwhelmed by the fact that you have made such an effort to make sure there was no stinking peace insight at all.So you chose to deter and overpower an adversary through the adversary’s perception and fear of his vulnerability and your own invincibility.So they had to accept that there will be no choice except to cease and desist or risk complete and total destruction.

I am wondering what do you think about Taliban's warriors ? Are not they similar to Japanese?They excessively hate Americans and would not mind blowing themselves up to destroy them in any corner of the world ? so why not sending them a nuke mail?

[MindfulCoug]

I just want to clarify that I don't think bombing Japan was the wrong thing to do. My main point is that I can see why other nations don't like us, and are justified in that point of view. I know many people who truly believe Bush's reasoning of "They hate us because we are free". That may be true, but it's not the only reason they hate us. Many of us think the US is doing nothing but good in the world. Like UtahDan said, we are all doing things in our own selfish interests.

Its the most honest way to honor the most dishonest action .I don't think we could achieve more on a message board!

[myboynoah]

No problem byu71 .No leader is supposed to be loved .

Not in Obama's America, young lady.

[MindfulCoug]

Not in Obama's America, young lady.

Its just a matter of time.

[wuapinmon]

Consider me a naive ,but is there any specific reason why Japanese warriors should not fight against their enemies until the last one loses his/her life? were they supposed to stop fighting for the sake of their adversary's well being?

A scenario was envisioned in which every single Japanese citizen would've taken up arms. The country would've been wrecked, and far more Japanese, not just the mythical "warriors" you speak of would've died. The bombs spared millions.

What i have understood from Utahdan post is ,the warrior codon in Japanese genome was not easily disintegrated ,so you had to apply unke to fix it for them genetically.

I have no freaking idea what you're talking about.

Reading your post ,i am overwhelmed by the fact that you have made such an effort to make sure there was no stinking peace insight at all.So you chose to deter and overpower an adversary through the adversary’s perception and fear of his vulnerability and your own invincibility.So they had to accept that there will be no choice except to cease and desist or risk complete and total destruction.

Yes, this is how you should treat an aggressor; need I remind you that Japan attacked first? I think the end result has been a Japan that is no longer an aggressive rogue state that destabilizes the region, but rather, a productive modern democracy. And it wasn't "complete and total destruction." It was the complete and total destruction of their ability to make war and of their nobility and political apparatus.

I am wondering what do you think about Taliban's warriors ? Are not they similar to Japanese?They excessively hate Americans and would not mind blowing themselves up to destroy them in any corner of the world ? so why not sending them a nuke mail?

The Taliban are not the Japanese.....the Japanese had a standing army and wore uniforms. The Taliban are miscreant cowards who use their "religion" as a thin veil to shroud their Medieval culture and desperate clinging to power. They hope to govern through repression and violence.

The use of nuclear weapons was justified in 1945; this is not 1945. We are not going to lose 1 million men and a trillion dollars in the next year fighting the Taliban. There is no clear Talibani nexus that could be attacked with nuclear weapons to destroy their ability to make war. I have no desire to turn Waziristan into a "glass parking lot" like some hate-filled mongrels have clamored. We used nuclear weapons to destroy our enemy's ability to make war, not to eradicate our enemy.

I will say this, we will never be able to defeat the Taliban by obeying international law and Pakistan's national "sovereignty" (as if they had control over Waziristan anyway). I imagine that we'll still be fighting with one hand tied behind our back ten years from now. In the case of the Taliban, if they won't come down out of their Khazad-Dum and agree to peace, then containment or extermination are the only pathways to peace. But, extermination debases us, making us worse than any damned Talibani ever could be.....but what do you say if it's your son sent off to fight evil men, when it's your son who dies because the public doesn't want us to "cross a line" or climb that "slippery slope?"

[il Padrino Ute]

I will say this, we will never be able to defeat the Taliban by obeying international law and Pakistan's national "sovereignty" (as if they had control over Waziristan anyway). I imagine that we'll still be fighting with one hand tied behind our back ten years from now. In the case of the Taliban, if they won't come down out of their Khazad-Dum and agree to peace, then containment or extermination are the only pathways to peace. But, extermination debases us, making us worse than any damned Talibani ever could be.....but what do you say if it's your son sent off to fight evil men, when it's your son who dies because the public doesn't want us to "cross a line" or climb that "slippery slope?"

Very well said waupinmon.

[MindfulCoug]

A scenario was envisioned in which every single Japanese citizen would've taken up arms. The country would've been wrecked, and far more Japanese, not just the mythical "warriors" you speak of would've died. The bombs spared millions. "

Thank you for your response Wuapinmon .We are having a long busy weekend here but i will definitely come forward and keep the conversation going .Please bear with me .