The Execution of Troy Davis

[RobinFinderson]

The state of Georgia has executed Troy Davis.

I really don't read much news these days, and I'm becoming less political all the time, so I don't know much about Troy Davis, except that the media has reported that he has persuaded many people, including most of the key witnesses against him, of his innocence. Especially in light of the fact that 7 of 9 key witnesses against him at his trial of either recanted all or significant parts of their testimony, it seems like our nation's judicial system may have executed an innocent man. Of course it is highly likely that we have executed innocent people, however the the fact that borderline cases happen so seldom that I can't even name one other one suggests to me that the execution of Troy Davis will haunt our public conscience for some time. The question then is, will it move public opinion enough to change policy?

I'm not up for debating capital punishment, which I think is barbaric. But I would point to one of Christopher Hitchens many fine essays where he makes a strong case against it. This one discusses the scheduled capital punishment of Timothy McVeigh. He also wrote similar essays before and after the execution of Saddam Hussein. I admire his moral dedication to something he really believes in.

[wuapinmon]

13 years ago, James Byrd was tied to the back of a pickup truck in Texas and dragged for 3 1/2 miles, becoming decapitated when his body bounced over a culvert.

This was done by white supremacists hoping to draw attention to their nascent organization.

The execution of one of the killers last night was justice, in my mind. I've contemplated all of the moral issues surrounding the death penalty, and I still feel that some people just deserve to die as a consequence of their actions.

[Green Monstah]

13 years ago, James Byrd was tied to the back of a pickup truck in Texas and dragged for 3 1/2 miles, becoming decapitated when his body bounced over a culvert.

This was done by white supremacists hoping to draw attention to their nascent organization.

The execution of one of the killers last night was justice, in my mind. I've contemplated all of the moral issues surrounding the death penalty, and I still feel that some people just deserve to die as a consequence of their actions.

I won't argue with you on this. The problem with the death penalty, in my mind, is the level of certainty that the accused committed the crime. It seems that a half a dozen times a year we hear of a prisoner who is released because DNA evidence, etc. exonerates him or her and the technology just wasn't available when they were convicted.

Furthermore, often persons who are on death row can't afford the type of counsel they need to prevent being sentenced to die. This isn't to say that there aren't excellent public defenders and low-cost defense attorneys out there, but generally their workload is so heavy and their pay is so light that they can't really expend the time, energy and resources necessary to keep their client's off of death row.

When you add to all of this the fact that eye-witness testimony may in fact be some of the worst evidence there is, and inmates are often convicted with eye-witness testimony, I think it requires that there be 100% certainty of guilt prior to handing down a death sentence.

[oxcoug]

Robin I'm sympathetic to your view on this - I've been ambivalent on the death penalty for years and it's exactly cases like this that make it such a morally dangerous thing.

That said, there are two questions here that a lot of people (not necessarily you) are conflating - (1) is Troy Davis guilty? and (2) is capital punishment OK?

I think a lot of people are letting their feelings about the second question color their evaluation of the first.

Having read a number of treatments of the subject, I think the evidence is pretty clear that Davis was, in fact, guilty - reversals from some people who testified notwithstanding.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/09/21/there-is-no-travesty-of-justice-in-georgia-executive-troy-davis/

[smokymountainrain]

13 years ago, James Byrd was tied to the back of a pickup truck in Texas and dragged for 3 1/2 miles, becoming decapitated when his body bounced over a culvert.

This was done by white supremacists hoping to draw attention to their nascent organization.

The execution of one of the killers last night was justice, in my mind. I've contemplated all of the moral issues surrounding the death penalty, and I still feel that some people just deserve to die as a consequence of their actions.

I'm familiar with that case. I'm not a fan of the death penalty, but I agree, it's hard to argue with it in the disgusting case you just described.

[byu71]

Based on the exhaustive reviews and appeals that were done for Mr. Davis and that being done over about a 22 year period, I am pretty comfortable he was guilty. Do I know for sure, no, but that is for the debate on the death penalty.

If we didn't have the death penalty, I am pretty dang sure he never would have gotten out of jail though. I guess life in jail is better than dieing?

[Green Monstah]

I'm familiar with that case. I'm not a fan of the death penalty, but I agree, it's hard to argue with it in the disgusting case you just described.

One of the interesting aspects of the Byrd case is that the driver did not get the death penalty, apparently because they couldn't confirm his ties to any white supremacy movement. So, you're driving two white supremacists, you tie up a black man and drag him behind your car for three miles, but the passengers get the needle and you get life in jail....hmmmm.

Apparently, however, he has to stay in an 8x6 cell for 23 hours per day for his own protection. I think I'd rather die.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I admit to knowing very little about the case. I do know that a number of witnesses later recanted their testimonies.

However, why didn't the Defense attorneys call these witnesses at the evidenciary hearing in 2008, if dropping their testimonies could have cleared him?

As I grow older I become less of a fan of capital punishment and would prefer to see them instead earn the 23 hr/day, 8x6 room routine for life. While I don't know if he deserved the DP I don't know whether he was entirely not guilty of the crime.

I am sure we will see the same type of groundswell when Mumia Abu Jamal's date with Ol' Sparky finally comes around.

[old_gregg]

Mumia is still alive, so call it even.

[Clark Addison]

13 years ago, James Byrd was tied to the back of a pickup truck in Texas and dragged for 3 1/2 miles, becoming decapitated when his body bounced over a culvert.

This was done by white supremacists hoping to draw attention to their nascent organization.

The execution of one of the killers last night was justice, in my mind. I've contemplated all of the moral issues surrounding the death penalty, and I still feel that some people just deserve to die as a consequence of their actions.

The question in my mind is not whether some people deserve to die. I think the answer to that is clearly "yes". The question is who makes that determination. Who gets to draw the line and determine that anyone on one side of the line deserves to die? I just don't trust the government enough to make this kind of decision. I am uncomfortable that these decisions can be driven by various types of bias. I am uncomfortable that these decisions can be driven by prosecutors who are influenced by political pressure or career ambition. I will not mourn Lawrence Brewer for a second, but I am uncomfortable that any system that allows us to execute people like him will also execute people like Troy Davis* or Cameron Willingham.


* I haven't followed the Davis case, and he may be completely guilty as charged. I am using him only as an example.

[RobinFinderson]

The question in my mind is not whether some people deserve to die. I think the answer to that is clearly "yes". The question is who makes that determination. Who gets to draw the line and determine that anyone on one side of the line deserves to die? I just don't trust the government enough to make this kind of decision. I am uncomfortable that these decisions can be driven by various types of bias. I am uncomfortable that these decisions can be driven by prosecutors who are influenced by political pressure or career ambition. I will not mourn Lawrence Brewer for a second, but I am uncomfortable that any system that allows us to execute people like him will also execute people like Troy Davis* or Cameron Willingham.


* I haven't followed the Davis case, and he may be completely guilty as charged. I am using him only as an example.

Well said. It is ironic that majority of support for capital punishment comes from the political side that doesn't trust the government to levee taxes, or regulate exhaust emissions.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Well said. It is ironic that majority of support for capital punishment comes from the political side that doesn't trust the government to levee taxes, or regulate exhaust emissions.

...and are pro-war and anti-abortion.

[woot]

The question in my mind is not whether some people deserve to die. I think the answer to that is clearly "yes". The question is who makes that determination. Who gets to draw the line and determine that anyone on one side of the line deserves to die? I just don't trust the government enough to make this kind of decision. I am uncomfortable that these decisions can be driven by various types of bias. I am uncomfortable that these decisions can be driven by prosecutors who are influenced by political pressure or career ambition. I will not mourn Lawrence Brewer for a second, but I am uncomfortable that any system that allows us to execute people like him will also execute people like Troy Davis* or Cameron Willingham.


* I haven't followed the Davis case, and he may be completely guilty as charged. I am using him only as an example.

This seems like a good argument. I am also ignorant of the facts in any of these cases, but it does seem strange to me that the crowd that identifies itself largely by distrust of government is the same one so keen on the government deciding which people shouldn't be alive anymore. "Death panels" indeed.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I am uncomfortable that these decisions can be driven by prosecutors who are influenced by political pressure or career ambition.

The Duke Lacross case is sufficient ammunition to support your uneasiness on this issue.

[RobinFinderson]

...and are pro-war and anti-abortion.

While I agree with you, I don't find the argument very compelling. It seems pretty morally consistent to place a different value on the lives of murderers and those who shoot at our soldiers than we place on a child.