Universal Healthcare

[BlueHair]

I am a Libertarian. If I had my way, the federal government would only serve a few minor functions and almost all power would be held at the local level. The government would be tiny in comparison to the one we have now.

This is a pipe dream. We are no longer a free society. Taxpayer money is stolen and given to elite groups and friends of politicians. We waste vast amounts of money waging unnecessary wars in foreign lands. We are getting all the shitty parts of capitalism and very little of the good. It's time to embrace our socialist government and at least get something out of it. Universal Healthcare is the first thing I want. In 2005, the U.S. spent 15% GDP insuring a small amount of Americans. France spent 10.7% insuring everyone. Their healthcare system is superior to ours and it's not even close. I would be happy to be a military pussy like France in exchange for not worrying about whether my kids will be able to see a doctor if they are sick. Keep our nukes and tell the rest of the world that we are scaling back our conventional army, but won't hesitate to use the nukes. Don't believe us? Ask Japan!

[Mormon Red Death]

I am a Libertarian. If I had my way, the federal government would only serve a few minor functions and almost all power would be held at the local level. The government would be tiny in comparison to the one we have now.

This is a pipe dream. We are no longer a free society. Taxpayer money is stolen and given to elite groups and friends of politicians. We waste vast amounts of money waging unnecessary wars in foreign lands. We are getting all the shitty parts of capitalism and very little of the good. It's time to embrace our socialist government and at least get something out of it. Universal Healthcare is the first thing I want. In 2005, the U.S. spent 15% GDP insuring a small amount of Americans. France spent 10.7% insuring everyone. Their healthcare system is superior to ours and it's not even close. I would be happy to be a military pussy like France in exchange for not worrying about whether my kids will be able to see a doctor if they are sick. Keep our nukes and tell the rest of the world that we are scaling back our conventional army, but won't hesitate to use the nukes. Don't believe us? Ask Japan!

First of all you can't be "cool boobs" anymore with a unibrow. It just doesnt work. Second of all you want us to be like france? Really??? Universal Health Care (which I am supposing means National Health Insurance) would be horrible for this country.

Moral Hazard is why this won't work

Moral hazard is the prospect that a party insulated from risk may behave differently from the way it would behave if it were fully exposed to the risk. Moral hazard arises because an individual or institution does not bear the full consequences of its actions, and therefore has a tendency to act less carefully than it otherwise would, leaving another party to bear some responsibility for the consequences of those actions. For example, an individual with insurance against automobile theft may be less vigilant about locking his or her car, because the negative consequences of automobile theft are (partially) borne by the insurance company.

IE when people have Health insurance they use health insurance. Thus costing a lot of money. I have supported forms of high deductible health insurance. and certainly for children. Read about my plan here However, full blown National health insurance is too costly and too inefficient. What happens when things get expensive. The government decides to ration those things. Ask Tooblue (who is a proponent of NHI) how long his son has to wait for a simple procedure that if he were in the states would be done in a couple of weeks (hint its close to 8 months).

[RobinFinderson]

If we hope to remain seriously competitive in the world economy, we need to socialize several things, dump trillions of dollars into them, and make sure that every child in every ghetto has access to the very best of the following:

Health Care
Education
Healthy Food

[Mormon Red Death]

If we hope to remain seriously competitive in the world economy, we need to socialize several things, dump trillions of dollars into them, and make sure that every child in every ghetto has access to the very best of the following:

Health Care
Education
Healthy Food

We can pay for that with Pixie dust and rainbows...

Yipeee!!!!

[RobinFinderson]

We can pay for that with Pixie dust and rainbows...

Yipeee!!!!

Just downsize the military and raise taxes on the wealthy. Eventually a new generation of healthy, educated workers will rise up and be more productive than any generation before them. It will be a golden age, and the revenues from their productivity will pay for everything. Don't you have faith in the American people?

[Solon]

If we hope to remain seriously competitive in the world economy, we need to socialize several things, dump trillions of dollars into them, and make sure that every child in every ghetto has access to the very best of the following:

Health Care
Education
Healthy Food

It's been over a decade since I lived in France, but they had some awful hospitals. I spent four days in a hospital in eastern Turkey, and it was miles ahead of the French public ones.

The private hospitals in France, though, were beautiful. But you had to pay.

But I'm in agreement with the overall point that we need some form of cheaper health care available to people who don't qualify for medicaid. It's absolutely ridiculous that the richest, strongest, most prosperous country in the history of the world can't provide health care to all its citizens. Hell, can't provide it for all of its children.

I spent 5 years in my twenties without health insurance.

[Mormon Red Death]

Just downsize the military and raise taxes on the wealthy. Eventually a new generation of healthy, educated workers will rise up and be more productive than any generation before them. It will be a golden age, and the revenues from their productivity will pay for everything. Don't you have faith in the American people?

When people have entitlement they are sure to be productive! That has always worked.

[il Padrino Ute]

Just downsize the military and raise taxes on the wealthy. Eventually a new generation of healthy, educated workers will rise up and be more productive than any generation before them. It will be a golden age, and the revenues from their productivity will pay for everything. Don't you have faith in the American people?

How 'bout this idea - you want nationalized health care? You pay for it.

All those in favor of it should pay for it. I don't want it, so I won't pay for it, nor will I use it. I'll continue to use my private insurance.

IOW, put your money, not my money, where your mouth is.

[beelzebabette]

Just downsize the military and raise taxes on the wealthy. Eventually a new generation of healthy, educated workers will rise up and be more productive than any generation before them. It will be a golden age, and the revenues from their productivity will pay for everything. Don't you have faith in the American people?

A discussion about the productivity of the American people can only happen after you have established what motivates productivity. But we haven't established that yet.

[RobinFinderson]

How 'bout this idea - you want nationalized health care? You pay for it.

All those in favor of it should pay for it. I don't want it, so I won't pay for it, nor will I use it. I'll continue to use my private insurance.

IOW, put your money, not my money, where your mouth is.

I really wish that this were an option.

[il Padrino Ute]

I really wish that this were an option.

If there are as many in this country who want nationalized healthcare as there seems to be, it can be an option. Start a grassroots effort to get it pushed through Congress.

My guess would be that it would die because people really aren't willing to do their part to make it work.

[venkman]

Just downsize the military and raise taxes on the wealthy. Eventually a new generation of healthy, educated workers will rise up and be more productive than any generation before them. It will be a golden age, and the revenues from their productivity will pay for everything. Don't you have faith in the American people?

I'd be interested in something showing the productivity of workers in socialized countries vs. the productivity of U.S. workers.

[TexTechCoug]

Those who believe that Socialized systems are clearly superior are struggling with one of two things; they don't know what they are talking about or they have their head stuck way up someone's yewt.

Sure the US can save a lot of money with Universal Care. All we need to do is stop treating anyone over the age of 70. No more catarrhact surgery, hip replacements, dialysis, or heart surgery for the elderly. This is the segment of our population where most of the money is being spent

The second reason that healthcare is so expensive compared to 20 years ago is a technology issue. It is like saying "why does my new Toyota Corolla cost 10 times the amount of my brand new Corolla in 1971." It is a question of apples and oranges. Anyone who is happy with cardiac care as practiced in 1971 please raise their hand.

There are definitely lots of problems with the US health care system, but they will only be made worse by creating universal coverage administrated by the US Government and a huge administration/bureaucratic body the likes of which we can't even imagine.

Moral hazard is exactly the right phrase. If people get it for free they will utilize more and the system will become unbearable and rationing will be instituted shortly.

We need to make individuals responsible for their own health instead of assuming that responsibility on a societal level. Individuals need to face the fact that their obesity, sedentary lifestyle, alcohol, tobacco, and drug use are the main causes of most of the health problems in America.

If you are obese, diabetic, have heart failure from your obesity, and you smoke, guess what? You should have to pay for all of your own care due to your own negligence. I am all for providing basic care for children who are responsible, but adults who knowingly and deliberately misuse their bodies shouldn't be given a free ride. People need to face the consequences of their own lousy decisions. Maybe if they did they would decide to exercise, lose some weight and quit smoking. On the contrary they are free to continue abusing themselves and go die.

[RobinFinderson]

A discussion about the productivity of the American people can only happen after you have established what motivates productivity. But we haven't established that yet.

Good point. Why people produce is as much a part of culture as it is human nature. I have faith in the American people. I think that given the chance, an educated and creative people will produce goods and services because they are curious, artistic, kind and generous. And if this isn't our culture yet, we can teach it. We can teach people to be good citizens. This has always been one of the primary goals of public education. The American Project needs to get bigger.

[LA Ute]

No libertarian wants universal heath care.