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Adam and Steve can now get married in NY...

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  • #1

    Adam and Steve can now get married in NY...

    ....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43507672...more_politics/

    I find it interesting that gay marriage had a tough time passing in NY. Sounds like it failed multiple times before finally passing. You'd think in a large, liberal state it would fly through with ease. I don't know NY well so maybe it's not as liberal is I think.

    This quote below was interesting and it seems to be a good compromise.

    The sticking point over the past few days: Republican demands for stronger legal protections for religious groups that fear they will be hit with discrimination lawsuits if they refuse to allow their facilities to be used for gay weddings.
    Would anyone even have a lawsuit against a private, religious institution that refused to rent out their church for a wedding? I'd think that as long as the institution doesn't take government money and are private that they can refuse whomever they want.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf
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  • #2
    In today's sue-happy world, is it really a stretch for churches to worry about that?

    I really don't care one way or another, but good for Adam and Steve.
    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


    "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

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    • #3
      I thought this was interesting from the LAT article on this development

      The decisive votes were cast by two Republicans, veteran Sen. Stephen Saland of Poughkeepsie and Marc Grisanti, a freshman from Buffalo.

      "I cannot legally come up with an argument against same-sex marriage," Grisanti, a lawyer, said during the debate. "I cannot deny a person, a human being ... the same rights I have with my wife."

      Said Saland: "I have defined doing the right thing as treating all persons with equality."

      Democratic Sen. Thomas Duane, the first openly gay member of the Senate, spoke tearfully of his own experience and of his partner of many years. "Marriage strengthens families," he said. "It will strengthen mine and it will strengthen all New York families."
      http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,650746.story
      Fitter. Happier. More Productive.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
        I thought this was interesting from the LAT article on this development



        http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,650746.story
        It seems to me that the GOP is doing the same thing it has done in the past... Vote with the money:

        Donors to G.O.P. Are Backing Gay Marriage Push

        As gay rights advocates intensify their campaign to legalize same-sex marriage in New York, the bulk of their money is coming from an unexpected source: a group of conservative financiers and wealthy donors to the Republican Party, most of whom are known for bankrolling right-leaning candidates and causes.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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        • #5
          Happy days in NY. Crickets in SLC.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
            Quote:
            The decisive votes were cast by two Republicans, veteran Sen. Stephen Saland of Poughkeepsie and Marc Grisanti, a freshman from Buffalo.

            "I cannot legally come up with an argument against same-sex marriage," Grisanti, a lawyer, said during the debate. "I cannot deny a person, a human being ... the same rights I have with my wife."

            Said Saland: "I have defined doing the right thing as treating all persons with equality."

            Democratic Sen. Thomas Duane, the first openly gay member of the Senate, spoke tearfully of his own experience and of his partner of many years. "Marriage strengthens families," he said. "It will strengthen mine and it will strengthen all New York families."
            Interesting. I wonder if this signals a lessening of the grip that the Christian Right has on the Republican party.
            "The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Moliere View Post
              ....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43507672...more_politics/

              I find it interesting that gay marriage had a tough time passing in NY. Sounds like it failed multiple times before finally passing. You'd think in a large, liberal state it would fly through with ease. I don't know NY well so maybe it's not as liberal is I think.

              This quote below was interesting and it seems to be a good compromise.



              Would anyone even have a lawsuit against a private, religious institution that refused to rent out their church for a wedding? I'd think that as long as the institution doesn't take government money and are private that they can refuse whomever they want.
              Probably not. Either way, it's about time to start caring more for people than preserving the wealth of private institutions.
              Just try it once. One beer or one cigarette or one porno movie won't hurt. - Dallin H. Oaks

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              • #8
                The next generation will be shaking their heads at this. Much like my generation does with the fight over civil rights or gender equality.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mUUser View Post
                  The next generation will be shaking their heads at this. Much like my generation does with the fight over civil rights or gender equality.
                  you really think the two are equatable? Gays current have the exact same rights re: marriage that I do in every state in the country, no?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mUUser View Post
                    The next generation will be shaking their heads at this. Much like my generation does with the fight over civil rights or gender equality.
                    The gay movement has evolved itself into more of a mainstream lifestyle that is becoming more and more compatible with conservative voters. I didn't grow up in the 70s or 80s, but I don't fault many of the older generation for being suspicious of gay marriage. It was only a couple decades ago that many gays touted their sexual promiscuity and freedom in a sort of "shove it in your face" type display.

                    In a sense this type of display was necessary to tell people that gays weren't going away and they were willing to fight for rights. However, I can see why many would take this the wrong way and would continue to be suspicious of gays getting the right to marry, since many still see them as more sexually promiscuous and anti-family than the average hetero.

                    My generation, which missed the gay flamboyancy of the 70s and 80s, doesn't have the same biases as my parents generation. I see gays as normal people leading normal lives seeking out companionship in a different way than me, but in a way that is natural for them. As my generation gets into public office and sees the denial or rights to a group of people, it's much easier for us to make the change without the biases of the older generation.

                    Much to the abhorrence of the older generation and CB, someday being gay will be normal and accepted.
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                      you really think the two are equatable? Gays current have the exact same rights re: marriage that I do in every state in the country, no?
                      This is a ridiculous argument and is one made by a person that views being gay as a choice instead of being biological.
                      "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                        This is a ridiculous argument and is one made by a person that views being gay as a choice instead of being biological.
                        I dont understand why it is such a bad argument. explain it to me. And How is it different than consensual, non underage polygamy?
                        Last edited by Maximus; 06-25-2011, 09:54 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                          I dont understand why it is such a bad argument. explain it to me. And How is it different than consensual, non underage polygamy?
                          It implies marriage doesn't mean anything. Those opposed to gay marriage believe that the rights are the only thing that should matter to gay people. That's simply not the case.
                          Just try it once. One beer or one cigarette or one porno movie won't hurt. - Dallin H. Oaks

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Maximus View Post
                            you really think the two are equatable? Gays current have the exact same rights re: marriage that I do in every state in the country, no?
                            75 years ago, in many areas, it was basically illegal for a black man to marry a white woman (de facto if not de jure). Would you be OK if a white man made the argument at the time that "a black man has the same right to marry that I do"? Because it was true. A black man could marry anyone within his race who he wanted to. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it is pretty effective.

                            You (and I) currently have the legal right to marry someone of the gender we are attracted to. A gay man does not have that right in most of the country.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Clark Addison View Post
                              75 years ago, in many areas, it was basically illegal for a black man to marry a white woman (de facto if not de jure). Would you be OK if a white man made the argument at the time that "a black man has the same right to marry that I do"? Because it was true. A black man could marry anyone within his race who he wanted to. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it is pretty effective.

                              You (and I) currently have the legal right to marry someone of the gender we are attracted to. A gay man does not have that right in most of the country.
                              could a white man marry a black woman?

                              anyways, what is your argument against polygamy?

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