Al Gore and "fertility management"

[Uncle Ted]

I'm with Al Gore on this one, as I suspect most people here would be if they cared to think about what he said. But it's a hopeless endeavor to engage Il Pad on anything advocated by Al Gore. He says family planning, Il Pad reads forced infanticide.

I agree that women should be educated on birth control for their own personal economic condition and not that of Al Gore's. This just seems like just another promotion of his self interests.

Al Gore, the former US vice president, could become the world's first carbon billionaire after investing heavily in green energy companies.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Al has a sizable position in some birth control products company now.

[woot]

Hmm... A central African country like Rwanda, for example, contributes less than 0.01% of the annual CO2 emissions in the world. On the other hand, China, the United States, and the European Union contribute around 60%.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If Al Gore is arguing that by educating the women in 3rd countries to have less babies will have an impact on global warming then I don't buy it.

Thanks for saying something on-topic. And I agree that global warming is way down the list of things to care about with regard to educating and empowering women in the third world. In the long term, however, it should have huge benefits when it comes to sustainability. It can't be emphasized enough how great the burden of uncontrolled human fecundity is.

[woot]

I agree that women should be educated on birth control for their own personal economic condition and not that of Al Gore's. This just seems like just another promotion of his self interests.



I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Al has a sizable position in some birth control products company now.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. We get it. Gore could be found drinking baby blood and it wouldn't make you hate him any more. That's probably true for a lot of us. It shouldn't affect your opinion on this issue one bit. Please try to distinguish the issue from the messenger.

[Moliere]

Geez. And I thought engineers were anal.

It's my way of saying I overlooked that fact the picture was Mary and Baby Jesus without saying I screwed up.

[Moliere]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. We get it. Gore could be found drinking baby blood and it wouldn't make you hate him any more. That's probably true for a lot of us. It shouldn't affect your opinion on this issue one bit. Please try to distinguish the issue from the messenger.

The title of the linked article is "Gore promoting fewer children to curb pollution"

I don't think Uncle Ted is confusing anything. Gore is making the link and that is the basis of this thread. If you want to discuss population control and planned parenthood education in 3rd world countries without linking to to pollution and CO2 emissions then you might want to start another thread.

[wuapinmon]

It's my way of saying I overlooked that fact the picture was Mary and Baby Jesus without saying I screwed up.

What was your major in college?

[SportUTE]

I'm with woot (and Gore, ironically enough) 1000% on this. The best predictor of births per woman is child mortality rate. If you give women education and means to ensure their children won't die from 0-3 they will plan their families much better. Check out Hans Rosling's presentation on this matter:

Hans Rosling's new insights on poverty

Go to the 2:00 mark

[woot]

The title of the linked article is "Gore promoting fewer children to curb pollution"

I don't think Uncle Ted is confusing anything. Gore is making the link and that is the basis of this thread. If you want to discuss population control and planned parenthood education in 3rd world countries without linking to to pollution and CO2 emissions then you might want to start another thread.

I'm not denying that Al Gore is promoting these measures as a way of fighting climate change. I'm denying that Al Gore is promoting forced sterilization or any other coercive population control measures, which is what Ted and others were accusing him of.

[Jacob]

Dude. Wow.

Originally Posted by Al Gore
You have to have ubiquitous availability of fertility management so women can choose how many children have, the spacing of the children...You have to lift child survival rates so that parents feel comfortable having small families and most important — you have to educate girls and empower women... that’s the most powerful leveraging factor, and when that happens, then the population begins to stabilize and societies begin to make better choices and more balanced choices.”

I know you are brimming with hate, but I doubt Fox News could have done a worse hatchet job than you just did.

Really? I find that section you quoted from Gore repulsive. Both the explicit and implicit meanings.

[Jacob]

I'm with Al Gore on this one, as I suspect most people here would be if they cared to think about what he said. But it's a hopeless endeavor to engage Il Pad on anything advocated by Al Gore. He says family planning, Il Pad reads forced infanticide.

I'm not with Al Gore, as I suspect most people here wouldn not be if they cared to think about what he said.

First, he's talking about reducing the number of live births to reduce carbon emissions. As has been pointed out, he's really talking about reducing the number of children in poor countries, which would have virtually no effect on carbon emissions.

Secondly, if the emissions producing countries reduced their live births even further, the economic disaster would be much worse than the potential economic disaster from climate change, IMO. Most of these countries are already at or below the replacement rate for their fertility rates.

Thirdly, he has implied, if not directly stated, that he has found the ideal number for a nation's fertility rate. And he wants a governmental policy which he believes would lead to his preferred fertility rate. This seems like a clear case of social engineering that is beyond the authority of any just form of government.

Fourthly, reducing the fertility rate of most poor counties to rates similar to the advanced western economies or China would most likely have a negative outcome for the future economic prospects of such county. People are good. We need people to get new ideas. We need people to work. We need people to support the weak and old.

Finally, Gore seems to have based his idea for a reduced fertility rate in poor countries on his Quixotic quest to reduce CO2 emissions, not out of a genuine concern for the well-being of those who find themselves living in a non-carbon producing economy. Sure, he says he wan't them to be more "educated" but this is largely because he thinks their "education" would lead to their using more condoms or having more abortions--his preferred outcome.

If someone wants to make a better moral argument than Gore seems to be making, I'm glad to hear it. But overpopulation is not a concern. I thought we got over that wrong-headed fear last century.

[Jacob]

I'm not denying that Al Gore is promoting these measures as a way of fighting climate change. I'm denying that Al Gore is promoting forced sterilization or any other coercive population control measures, which is what Ted and others were accusing him of.

I must have missed where Ted and others said that. Is this a case of your doing to them exactly what you have accused them of doing to Gore?

[Uncle Ted]

Geez. And I thought engineers were anal.

I hear that's pretty effective too.

I don't know whether to or

[Color Me Badd Fan]

These women and their resulting children are dependent on the government. It's no wonder they do not take responsibility for their actions...they don't have to! They are the fruits of modern American liberalism, the result of too much government, not too little government.

There used to be no safety net for these children. Not too surprisingly, there was an enormous stigma towards having children out of wedlock. A child born under those circumstances usually had an exceptionally difficult life. The out of wedlock birthrate has soared over the past 40-50 years and I think it's due in no small part to the safety net.

I hate to break it to Al Gore, but contraceptives have been around for awhile now and it doesn't seem like segments of the population care to use them. The genie is out of the bottle and uneducated people living off the dole have [shockingly] decided they like having sex without using contraceptives. The old drawbacks (shame, not knowing where your and your child's next meal is coming from) aren't present.

I'm not prepared and I don't think society in general is prepared to pull back this safety net. Everything else short of taking away civil liberties will fail in trying to halt the number of children being born out of wedlock.

[NorthwestUteFan]

But overpopulation is not a concern. I thought we got over that wrong-headed fear last century.

Anybody who believes that overpopulation is a concern needs to get out of NYC/LA/DFW/H-town/SF/Chi-town/DEEtroit City and physically drive a car across Nebraska, Iowa, the Dakotas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tejas, etc.

Then they need to look at the replacement rate, as you mentioned (~2.1 live births per woman = static population). Russia, China, and to a lesser extent the USA face significant problems over the next 3-5 decades, as their populations will become excessively old. Italy, France, Japan, and many other countries will in a few years have more domestic births by foreigners than by Italians, French, and Japanese, and those countries will lose much of their identities over a very short time. That doesn't bother Americans because this is such a melting pot, but to ethnic Italians, French, and Japanese this will be a huge shock.

[il Padrino Ute]

If you really love the freedom this country affords you and you know that it requires the lives of those willing to defend it, then you should off yourself defending this country. Please go fight the terrorists who want to destroy our freedom. Hunt them down in Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, New York City. And if you die, TIA.

Just after I finished at Marist in '88, I considered very strongly signing up for the military. I was rejected because of a slight heart condition that I've had my entire life.

As I told woot, your comment is idiotic, because I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives as Al Gore is.