The Energy Thread

[Uncle Ted]

Maybe this explains what happened in Texas...

[Uncle Ted]

Gas does not freeze at 10F but valves and other fittings can and do. But frozen gas valves are nothing that can't be overcome with some prior planning and preparation. Texas should have been more prepared for the cold.

Yeah, we need more nuke plants.

[Uncle Ted]

I don't disagree with this...having been to west Texas A LOT.

Yeah, nothing in west texas... We can just dump it down some old oil well.

[Moliere]

West Texas is as big an open wasteland as Nevada is. Probably bigger. Let’s just dump it out there.

I don't disagree with this...having been to west Texas A LOT.

[falafel]

Maybe Canada/Siberia (same place) put their NG gas pipes in the ground? In texas, what's the point if there is only going to be a hard freeze once every 30 years or so? Let's build more nuke plants and get that Yucca Mountain opened back up! (Damn you Harry Reid!) Or maybe we can just start dumping it in the ocean again.

West Texas is as big an open wasteland as Nevada is. Probably bigger. Let’s just dump it out there.

[BigFatMeanie]

All gas pipelines in teh US are in the ground, at least AFAIK. And gas doesn't freeze at 10 degrees F. Heck, it's not even a liquid at that point. That's why it's called gas

Gas does not freeze at 10F but valves and other fittings can and do. But frozen gas valves are nothing that can't be overcome with some prior planning and preparation. Texas should have been more prepared for the cold.

[Moliere]

Maybe Canada/Siberia (same place) put their NG gas pipes in the ground? In texas, what's the point if there is only going to be a hard freeze once every 30 years or so? Let's build more nuke plants and get that Yucca Mountain opened back up! (Damn you Harry Reid!) Or maybe we can just start dumping it in the ocean again.

All gas pipelines in teh US are in the ground, at least AFAIK. And gas doesn't freeze at 10 degrees F. Heck, it's not even a liquid at that point. That's why it's called gas

[Moliere]

Yeah, I didn't understand why natural gas isn't there... Maybe Moli will clue us in why natural gas isn't reliable (especially in cold weather). I wonder if it had something with natural gas prices going up with the executive order on the keystone xl shutdown.

Given that keystone XL is a crude pipeline, I doubt that had any effect

AFAIK the biggest issue again is that infrastructure wasn't winterized properly when built. Or put another way, pipeline companies decided to not pay for equipment that would run reliably in subfreezing temperatures because it's Texas and only freezes once or twice a year and never at 8 degrees. This is why the railroad commission is partly at fault, because they regulate instate pipelines. When temps fell, the compressors and other equipment that push the gas along froze, which made pressure low and not enough gas was getting to the generation. The state did make what was probably a good (or less worse) decision to route what gas pressure they had to homes, which allowed those with power to at least run their furnaces for heat and those without power to run a fireplace. Most homes in the suburbia of Houston have gas or wood fireplaces and they come in very handy in times like this.

So if the pipeline equipment was properly ready for winter weather and the gas generators were also properly equipped, the situation would have been less bad. Gas makes up more than half of all power in Texas with wind making up about 1/4 of power. Coal and nuclear make up what is left with a very small amount of solar as well.

[Uncle Ted]

I'm sure it can, but lots of cold places (Canada/Siberia) have figured it out and can have it work through much colder temperatures.

Like I said. All these energy sources can work just fine in the cold. Texas just screwed it up.

Maybe Canada/Siberia (same place) put their NG gas pipes in the ground? In texas, what's the point if there is only going to be a hard freeze once every 30 years or so? Let's build more nuke plants and get that Yucca Mountain opened back up! (Damn you Harry Reid!) Or maybe we can just start dumping it in the ocean again.

[beefytee]

Maybe because of natural gas pipelines freezing? Is that a thing?

I'm sure it can, but lots of cold places (Canada/Siberia) have figured it out and can have it work through much colder temperatures.

Like I said. All these energy sources can work just fine in the cold. Texas just screwed it up.

[Pelado]

Yeah, I didn't understand why natural gas isn't there... Maybe Moli will clue us in why natural gas isn't reliable (especially in cold weather). I wonder if it had something with natural gas prices going up with the executive order on the keystone xl shutdown.

Maybe because of natural gas pipelines freezing? Is that a thing?

[Uncle Ted]

While I generally agree with the WSH article. The lead line is confusing to me though.

"An electricity grid that relies on renewables also needs nuclear or coal power."

Why did they leave off natural gas there? Because it is less controversial than nuclear or coal?

Everyone is trying to make a type of Energy the boogie man here. I don't know that the type of energy matter as they all can potentially function in the extreme cold. Bottom line is that Texas didn't take the precautions they needed to to keep things running in the cold.

Yeah, I didn't understand why natural gas isn't there... Maybe Moli will clue us in why natural gas isn't reliable (especially in cold weather). I wonder if it had something with natural gas prices going up with the executive order on the keystone xl shutdown.

[beefytee]

Texas leaders failed to heed warnings that left the state's power grid vulnerable to winter extremes (chron.com)

Texas politicians and regulators were warned after the 2011 storm that more “winterizing” of power infrastructure was necessary, a report by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and the North American Electric Reliability Corporation shows. The large number of units that tripped offline or couldn’t start during that storm “demonstrates that the generators did not adequately anticipate the full impact of the extended cold weather and high winds,” regulators wrote at the time. More thorough preparation for cold weather could have prevented the outages, the report said.

“This should have been addressed in 2011 by the Legislature after that market meltdown, but there was no substantial follow up,” by state politicians or regulators, said Ed Hirs, an energy fellow and economics professor at the University of Houston. “They skipped on down the road with business as usual.”

[beefytee]

While I generally agree with the WSH article. The lead line is confusing to me though.

"An electricity grid that relies on renewables also needs nuclear or coal power."

Why did they leave off natural gas there? Because it is less controversial than nuclear or coal?

Everyone is trying to make a type of Energy the boogie man here. I don't know that the type of energy matters as they all can potentially function in the extreme cold. Bottom line is that Texas didn't take the precautions they needed to to keep things running in the cold.

[Moliere]

Stoopid posters...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...ty-crisis/amp/

Wind energy isn’t the only issue but it’s most certainly partially at fault. The state regulators are probably the most at fault starting with the railroad commission and ercot. Honestly, the biggest culprit is at the top of state leadership. Abbott has been MIA on anything including just basic information. At least Cuomo gives people hope even if it’s false hope.


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