The Energy Thread

[Uncle Ted]

Burying lines is expensive

Not to mention the ground in California doesn't seem all that stable.

[Uncle Ted]

To any given HOA it would be.

The problem is a lot more complex than that. There is plenty of culpability to go around, including to the CA leg that mandated PG&E spend a lot of its resources on renewables without allowing it to raise rates enough to pay for spending on maintenance at the same time. PG&E is poorly run but is also restricted from making its own choices.

Deregulated power in Texas has its problems as well. There are like 40 power companies to choose from. I have to keep switching power companies about every six months so I can keep getting the best rate. It's a PITA.

[Moliere]

More expensive than wildfires?

Probably. In Houston a study was done after Hurricane Ike because the mayor wanted to make the system more reliable and underground lines are much more reliable than those on poles. They found that burying lines cost at least 6-7 times more but usually much more, especially in urban areas. The cost is about $20 per foot for above ground and up to $400 per foot to bury. Plus, maintaining buried lines is much more expensive. Houston ultimately decided that going without power for 7 days after a hurricane is worth the trouble when compared to paying an electrical bill that is 4-5 times higher.

I can only imagine how much it would cost for CAlifornia to bury their high voltage transmission lines in some of the very rural and mountainous areas. The cost would be astronomical, especially once you add on the environmental studies/impact that Cali would obviously require.

The question is also who is going to pay for it? The rate payers already don't pay enough to properly maintain the system so will they pay exponentially more to bury the lines? They won't even pay more to properly maintain the system and they are already paying much higher rates than most states.

[Moliere]

To any given HOA it would be.

The problem is a lot more complex than that. There is plenty of culpability to go around, including to the CA leg that mandated PG&E spend a lot of its resources on renewables without allowing it to raise rates enough to pay for spending on maintenance at the same time. PG&E is poorly run but is also restricted from making its own choices.

And the issue doesn't seem to be with local HOAs or suburbs. It seems to be with the high transmission lines in rural areas. HOAs already burying lines but that is more for aesthetics than anything else. If your buried HOA line is connected to a transmission line that has no power, then it doesn't matter if your neighborhood has buried lines.

[creekster]

And the issue doesn't seem to be with local HOAs or suburbs. It seems to be with the high transmission lines in rural areas. HOAs already burying lines but that is more for aesthetics than anything else. If your buried HOA line is connected to a transmission line that has no power, then it doesn't matter if your neighborhood has buried lines.

This was one of the odd things about PG&E's power downs. The first time, at least, they powered down distribution lines but not transmission lines. The knicaid fire, as I understand it, was likely started by a downed transmission line. The decision not to turn off transmission lines makes some sense, as doing so affects the grid in far reaching ways. But if the area is unsafe for distribution lines, I can't see why it would be much or any better for transmission lines.

[Uncle Ted]

Utah, don't be like California!

How Rocky Mountain Power is working to avoid mass outages like California
Utah utility company identifies Public Safety Power Shutoff zones

The massive planned power outages plunging millions of California residents into darkness are a wildfire prevention tactic Rocky Mountain Power wants to avoid, but in preparation for a worst-case scenario, the utility company developed a contingency plan over the summer to do just that.
[...]

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/11...rJ3-J_WHIUty3A

Take over your power companies and make them state controlled now before it is too late...

California Governor Threatens State Takeover of PG&E
Gavin Newsom says state may intervene if shareholders, bondholders cannot quickly reach a deal to exit bankruptcy

California Gov. Gavin Newsom is threatening a state takeover of PG&E Corp. unless the company exits bankruptcy and dramatically improves the safety of its electric grid before the next wildfire season.
[...]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...-e-11572641749

[beefytee]

An interesting summary on the current state of fusion:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuc...ower-a-reality

Over the past several years, more than two dozen research groups—impressively staffed and well-funded startups, university programs, and corporate projects—have achieved eye-opening advances in controlled nuclear fusion. They’re building fusion reactors based on radically different designs that challenge the two mainstream approaches, which use either a huge, doughnut-shaped magnetic vessel called a tokamak or enormously powerful lasers.

I'm skeptical that there were be commercially viable fusion reactors in the next decade.

[wapiti]

An interesting summary on the current state of fusion:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuc...ower-a-reality





I'm skeptical that there were be commercially viable fusion reactors in the next decade.

If we get commercially viable fusion reactors will the climate change problem simply disappear?

[Uncle Ted]

If we get commercially viable fusion reactors will the climate change problem simply disappear?

Yeah, how long before we all start running our cars on beer and banana peals out of the trash?

[wuapinmon]

If we get commercially viable fusion reactors will the climate change problem simply disappear?

The fewer tons of carbon in the atmosphere, the better. But, gasoline is still amazing and cheap for what it does and will be hard to replace in personal vehicles unless the price is significantly cheaper than internal combustion engines.

[Lost Student]

The fewer tons of carbon in the atmosphere, the better. But, gasoline is still amazing and cheap for what it does and will be hard to replace in personal vehicles unless the price is significantly cheaper than internal combustion engines.

With near-unlimited energy, we could suck CO2 out of the air--and use it to make gasoline (or just sequester it).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#775ed4e613cc

[Jeff Lebowski]

With near-unlimited energy, we could suck CO2 out of the air--and use it to make gasoline (or just sequester it).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#775ed4e613cc

Whoa. That is really cool.

I honestly believe we are going to science our way out of this global warming mess. The future is bright.

[snowcat]

Whoa. That is really cool.

I honestly believe we are going to science our way out of this global warming mess. The future is bright.

I think it is the only realistic way we will be successful.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think it is the only realistic way we will be successful.

Absolutely. You cannot wreck your economy with overaggressive carbon reductions because it takes a robust economy to facilitate the research and technology required to solve the problem.

[wuapinmon]

With near-unlimited energy, we could suck CO2 out of the air--and use it to make gasoline (or just sequester it).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#775ed4e613cc

I hope that that plays out. I really, really do.