I love Utah politics

[Jeff Lebowski]

We are talking about a book that is already in school libraries being removed and destroyed because of its contents. Conversely, the notion being discussed is the notion that kids are going to get an inferior education if this particular book IS available in public school libraries. That is probably the only notion more absurd than the one you mentioned.

I can definitely understand why parents would be concerned about books with that type of content in school libraries.

Do you think there should be any restrictions on content in school libraries?

[Donuthole]

I can definitely understand why parents would be concerned about books with that type of content in school libraries.

Do you think there should be any restrictions on content in school libraries?

Of course I do. What a silly question. But you knew that. (You knew both my answer and that the question was silly.) The real question, of course, is where to draw the line. I suspect this is where you and I disagree. FWIW, I can also see why parents would be concerned with that type of content--concerned that the content is consumed by their child, not concerned that it exists in school libraries for consumption by kids other than their own. Parents can teach their kids what to read and what not to read. And, quite frankly, the kids who are going to seek out and read something like this are kids whose parents aren't going to talk to them about sex, and are arguably the kids who would most benefit from access to something like this. If this were required reading for a class, of course that would be ridiculous. But it's not, and that's not the issue.

In short, the specific book being banned does not strike me as something so morally perilous or pernicious that its very existence for consumption by teens is harmful. Even putting this on a list of books not to buy for new schools would be semi reasonable. Sure, don't buy this book for future schools. But adding it to a list so that it gets removed from schools where it already exists and destroyed? Nonsense. The fact that the law requires destruction and not sale of the removed books goes to show that the actual bill/law/measure isn't just about this not existing in schools.

[Maximus]

i guess charter schools mean more than entire school districts, so all you need is 2-3 religious schools to get upset about a book and every school needs to destroy it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Of course I do. What a silly question. But you knew that. (You knew both my answer and that the question was silly.) The real question, of course, is where to draw the line. I suspect this is where you and I disagree. FWIW, I can also see why parents would be concerned with that type of content--concerned that the content is consumed by their child, not concerned that it exists in school libraries for consumption by kids other than their own. Parents can teach their kids what to read and what not to read. And, quite frankly, the kids who are going to seek out and read something like this are kids whose parents aren't going to talk to them about sex, and are arguably the kids who would most benefit from access to something like this. If this were required reading for a class, of course that would be ridiculous. But it's not, and that's not the issue.

In short, the specific book being banned does not strike me as something so morally perilous or pernicious that its very existence for consumption by teens is harmful. Even putting this on a list of books not to buy for new schools would be semi reasonable. Sure, don't buy this book for future schools. But adding it to a list so that it gets removed from schools where it already exists and destroyed? Nonsense. The fact that the law requires destruction and not sale of the removed books goes to show that the actual bill/law/measure isn't just about this not existing in schools.

So we agree this is a pissing contest about where to draw the line. Yawn….

[MartyFunkhouser]

i guess charter schools mean more than entire school districts, so all you need is 2-3 religious schools to get upset about a book and every school needs to destroy it.

The aspect of the law where 3 schools remove it and it has to be removed across the state is a problem.

[BigFatMeanie]

The aspect of the law where 3 schools remove it and it has to be removed across the state is a problem.

Three school districts, not 3 schools.

[beefytee]

Three school districts, not 3 schools.

I haven’t followed this, but I’m guessing the law refers to LEAs (Local Educational Agency) which for public schools is the school district, but for lots of charter schools it is just the single school, and I seem to recall charter schools being including here. So if what I say above is accurate, then 3 charter schools could potentially shut a book down.

[BigFatMeanie]

I'm less familiar with some of the other works and authors on the list than I am with Judy Blume's stuff. (Yes, I read "Are you there God, It's Me Margaret" when I was young and I've always remembered the bit about the girls trying to do chest exercises to grow out their boobs.) Apparently the knock on the fairy books by Sarah J. Maas is not just the explicit sex stuff like Judy Blume has in her books, but the incorporation of BSDM themes, rape, etc. But I've never read any of those, so I can't say.

Some people were up in arms about the Harry Potter books because of torture and murder and because of magic/witchcraft in general, but Harry Potter wasn't ever explicitly sexual.

Is anyone on the board into the fantasy genre? If so, you should take one for the team and read all the Sarah J. Maas fairy books and let us know whether we should let our young kids read them. I would rather gouge my eyeballs out than read fantasy stuff.

[Bo Diddley]

I'm less familiar with some of the other works and authors on the list than I am with Judy Blume's stuff. (Yes, I read "Are you there God, It's Me Margaret" when I was young and I've always remembered the bit about the girls trying to do chest exercises to grow out their boobs.) Apparently the knock on the fairy books by Sarah J. Maas is not just the explicit sex stuff like Judy Blume has in her books, but the incorporation of BSDM themes, rape, etc. But I've never read any of those, so I can't say.

Some people were up in arms about the Harry Potter books because of torture and murder and because of magic/witchcraft in general, but Harry Potter wasn't ever explicitly sexual.

Is anyone on the board into the fantasy genre? If so, you should take one for the team and read all the Sarah J. Maas fairy books and let us know whether we should let our young kids read them. I would rather gouge my eyeballs out than read fantasy stuff.

Does Tolkien count? I loved his works, but but couldn't get into any other authors. I did like listening to Harry Potter narrated by Jim Dale though.

[Clark Addison]

I'm less familiar with some of the other works and authors on the list than I am with Judy Blume's stuff. (Yes, I read "Are you there God, It's Me Margaret" when I was young and I've always remembered the bit about the girls trying to do chest exercises to grow out their boobs.) ...

We must, we must, we must increase our bust!

I had six sisters. Our house was lousy with Judy Blume and Beverly Cleary books. Sue me.

[frank ryan]

I'm now aware of these books and I've never heard of them before. Banning books is a way to make them more popular.
Maybe they could request parent sign off on them or something.

This isn't going to prevent kids from learning about sex as the internet is a thing and people talk to each other.

[Northwestcoug]

I'm less familiar with some of the other works and authors on the list than I am with Judy Blume's stuff. (Yes, I read "Are you there God, It's Me Margaret" when I was young and I've always remembered the bit about the girls trying to do chest exercises to grow out their boobs.) Apparently the knock on the fairy books by Sarah J. Maas is not just the explicit sex stuff like Judy Blume has in her books, but the incorporation of BSDM themes, rape, etc. But I've never read any of those, so I can't say.

Some people were up in arms about the Harry Potter books because of torture and murder and because of magic/witchcraft in general, but Harry Potter wasn't ever explicitly sexual.

Is anyone on the board into the fantasy genre? If so, you should take one for the team and read all the Sarah J. Maas fairy books and let us know whether we should let our young kids read them. I would rather gouge my eyeballs out than read fantasy stuff.

As the Tolkien (tee hee!) fantasy nerd of this board I feel I should respond. Would love to take one for the team, especially if there are naughty bits in that fantasy book. Sadly, I have about 5 other books that need to be read before I could even tackle that one.

[BigFatMeanie]

Does Tolkien count? I loved his works, but but couldn't get into any other authors. I did like listening to Harry Potter narrated by Jim Dale though.

Jim Dale is super-talented. He supposedly can do nearly 200 different voices. His HP recordings are pretty amazing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is getting interesting. SL Trib reporter Bryan Schott is so upset about the book ban, he offers to buy the books for any kid that contacts him. And then he promptly gets fired by the Trib. Story is getting national attention.

Some excerpts from the banned books in this thread.

Embedded Tweet

[BigFatMeanie]

Bryan Schott is a marxist activist who takes delight in provoking conservative and religious people in the state. I'm glad he's gone but I also don't like that this is an opportunity for him to play the martyr.
Eric Moutsous is a MAGA Trumper Humper right-winger "patriot" type. I don't like him either.

In this particular case, I support taking those books out of the schools (and, fine, Green Monstah, maybe the law is a little too aggressive about mandating they be "destroyed"). I understand that "kids are gonna find and read them anyway" but I would rather not make it quite so easy for kids to access them.