At which point did we become Rome? Are we the "conquering heroes"? Does anybody still believe in "the cause of Liberty"?
NSFK photos here.
NSFK photos here.
-
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 03-21-2011, 08:05 PM. -
Are you drunk posting?
That link is in German. And it deserves a disclaimer for the photos.Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.
Dig your own grave, and save!
"The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American
"I know that you are one of the cool and 'edgy' BYU fans" -- Wally
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM! -
I am not drunk posting, and the pictures should be self explanatory.Originally posted by falafel View Post
Basically some soldiers in Afghanistan are taking "trophy photos" with their victims. According to Der Spiegel, they have over 4k pictures like these. Many were innocent, unarmed civilians.
My question is this: How does this help our claim that we are NOT conquering imperialists? This may be MANY times worse than Abu Ghraib in terms of PR. And it is disgusting that I am even thinking of PR in this case.Comment
-
On the other hand, are these types of photos on par with the Al Qaeda beheading videos? Many people in those countries take great pride in those videos.Comment
-
Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
The pictures are self explanatory, but what does that have to do with a disclaimer? My son happened to be looking over my shoulder. I thought I was going to an article, not a series of pictures.
To your question, no it doesn't help and anyone that is caught in the photos should be investigated and discharged, as their decision making is questionable, at best, for the photo's alone.Comment
-
And as I understand it, the guys that took these photos are already on trial.Originally posted by Coach McGuirk View Post"It's devastating, because we lost to a team that's not even in the Pac-12. To lose to Utah State is horrible." - John White IVComment
-
The link didn't say "Afghan Kill Squads," it said "Linky here", which didn't help your claim that you're not drunk posting.Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View PostAin't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.
Dig your own grave, and save!
"The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American
"I know that you are one of the cool and 'edgy' BYU fans" -- Wally
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!Comment
-
Here is an email message from a friend who has been over there for the majority of the last 10 years. It enhances my perspective somewhat, but doesn't completely clear the air:
FWIW my grandfather has an Nazi flag, various items, and an SS officer's Walther PPK from when he put a bazooka shell into the side of a Panzer somewhere around Bechtesgaden.
I don't condone it, especially since the bodies are claimed to be murdered civilians.
OTH, The taking of what I'll call trophies has been happening in just about every conflict since the beginning of time. In the beginning the victors ate the heart or liver of the vanquished to absorb the power of the defeated.
I have my own group of photos. Reminds me of what I've done and what I don't ever want to have to do again. There are times when my previous actions come back to haunt and the only way of putting it to sleep is to review the where and when to find a way to justify the results.
Another side is that enough war causes people to harden to the point where killing people becomes akin to stepping on an ant. Too many of our people have been placed on the action line far too many times and for much too long. Even in WWII our people were not forced to conduct killing operations for so long. They got rotated out and replaced with new. A lot of our guys have seen 3 or 4 tours in Iraq and another couple of tours in Afghanistan. For the Army people that's 18 months at a whack. It changes you and there's no avoiding it. It takes a long time to adjust once you get home...
I've come to admire and respect both the Iraqis and the Afghanis, but I know they do the same things. Don't watch any of the beheading videos. They take great pride in exhibiting them. They do other things as gruesome or worse with our dead.
War is not pretty, and it should sicken everyone that comes in contact with it. I really wish there was no more war. As far as I've been able to determine, there's not much reason for it, and only where innocents are being persecuted by tyrants can it be justified. Even then it's a tough call.
As I said, I cannot and do not condone it, but I understand how it happens.
Comment
-
I thought reading comprehension was Law School 101. This thread is titled "Afghanistan "Kill Teams": Uh Oh... ".Originally posted by falafel View Post
This will blow up and be very, very bad.Comment
-
Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
Not quite. Look, the correct answer is, yeah, I should have pointed out the pictures were graphic. Instead, you are just proving to be an asshole, so fuck you and go discuss this with yourself.Comment
-
Your buddy can say he doesn't condone it all he wants, but the second he participated in a "trophy" photo (and he admitted he has) he condoned it.Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View PostPrepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss
There's three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as a city; and never go near a lady's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, everything else is cream cheese. --Coach FinstockComment
-
I agree. But then again, I have never been in the same situation and honestly don't know how I would react under the same pressures.Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
He DOES have a valid point, however. Men spend so much time over there that killing becomes as much an everyday occurrence as stepping on an ant.Comment
-
Nothing new to see there. If anything, it makes the war more real.
Che guevara
Spoiler for Che:
Pablo Escobar
Spoiler for Escobar:
John Dillinger
Spoiler for Dillinger:"Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --SolonComment
-
Eight years ago I was likely in the "F Yeah! Kill em all! Turn that place into glass!" camp of rah rah cheerleaders, but that changed as I met more military personnel, and heard more of their stories.
Their job is to kill people, and break things, period. If we send them in we need to have a DAMNED good reason to have them there, with a well-defined mission.
I have to wonder, however, if the toll has become too big to bear? Or is this type of thing acceptable?
Dillinger was a murderous gangster, killed in the "Chicago Gang Wars". Escobar ran the biggest drug cartel in the world and was dangerous in his own right, killed in the "War on Drugs". The term "War" is a misnomer in both cases.
Che Gueverra allegedly was fond of murdering priests, among others, but I don't know whether or not that was ever proven definitively. I admit I am not very familiar with him, but I have seen arguments on both sides for and against him. Of the three you list he is the only one that I would truly consider to be a political murder.
The Afghanistan pictures are certainly stomach-turning and dehumanizing, as if the men had just nailed their Trophy Buck.
As you say, perhaps it only serves to make everything more 'real' for the rest of us safely back in our homes. Now we are getting the party started in Libya. USA! USA! USA!
I hope we can survive.Comment
Comment