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  • Currency War

    I can't believe I'm about to say this because it goes against every Libertarian bone in my body. Here it is:

    We are way too far down the Keynesian path to fix our economic problems with a different president. Capitalism and free trade aren't going to solve them either. We need a strong middle class and low unemployment. To accomplish that, we need a vibrant manufacturing sector. We can't compete with third world countries in manufacturing because our labor is too expensive. China is keeping their currency artificially low to make exports attractive. Vietnam just devalued their currency for the same reason.

    Our best weapon is to continue to debase our currency. China is going to be the big loser in all of this. Inflation is taking over and they have very few weapons to fight it. Raising interest rates won't do it. The only real solution is to let the Yuan float up. If they do that, they will lose all of their manufacturing to Vietnam because they will have lost their price advantage. If they don't, inflation will make food too expensive to buy and they'll have civil unrest, probably a revolution. The average worker in China can barely afford food, let alone buy anything they produce. So in the mean time, we'll keep printing money until they cry uncle. The longer they let it go, the worse off they are going to be. The U.S. is basically exporting inflation. There is no way China can produce enough to outpace our money printing.

    Eventually, the game will have to stop. We will have killed our currency, but gotten our manufacturing back. We will have a couple of really painful years, but everyone will be working and we'll start producing our own goods. Wages will return because we won't have enough workers to produce all of the things we use. We'll be begging Mexicans to come to the U.S. and work to keep inflation in check.

    When it's all said and done, we will have basically just hit the "reset" button.
    Just try it once. One beer or one cigarette or one porno movie won't hurt. - Dallin H. Oaks

  • #2
    Ummm. What if China just refuses to buy our hyperinflated currency backed bonds? And we can't just keep on printing money and expect other countries to maintain the dollar as a key currency.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
      Ummm. What if China just refuses to buy our hyperinflated currency backed bonds? And we can't just keep on printing money and expect other countries to maintain the dollar as a key currency.
      They have to buy our bonds to keep their game going. They've tried everything else. They bought gold. They bought oil until they ran out of places to put it. They bought a lifetime supply of copper. They bought euros and caused that run up. They hold between two and three trillion dollars in bonds that they can't get rid of. They're painted into a corner with no escape. If they stop buying bonds, who will buy their exports?
      Just try it once. One beer or one cigarette or one porno movie won't hurt. - Dallin H. Oaks

      Comment


      • #4
        In addition to the ones KL mentioned it makes U.S. assets cheap for other countries. Foreigners will be buying up U.S. companies, real estate, etc. This happened to countries like France after WWII and it wasn't pretty (for them). The companies providing those manufacturing jobs may just end up foreign own if they become cheap enough.

        Also, while it would help our exports the price on imports would jump. Americans are accustomed to buying cheap goods that come from low wage countries. Therefore, expect the cost of living to go up.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
          In addition to the ones KL mentioned it makes U.S. assets cheap for other countries. Foreigners will be buying up U.S. companies, real estate, etc. This happened to countries like France after WWII and it wasn't pretty (for them). The companies providing those manufacturing jobs may just end up foreign own if they become cheap enough.

          Also, while it would help our exports the price on imports would jump. Americans are accustomed to buying cheap goods that come from low wage countries. Therefore, expect the cost of living to go up.
          Japan tried to buy the U.S. back in the '80s. Didn't work out so well for them. I'm not saying that it's not going to suck for us. It's going to be horrible. We are going to have hyperinflation. It's inevitable. The good thing is we'll have inflated our debts away and we'll be working. We'll start making our own goods and they will be cheap in comparison to imports. The rest of the world will hurt a lot worse than us.
          Just try it once. One beer or one cigarette or one porno movie won't hurt. - Dallin H. Oaks

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          • #6
            My fear is foreign countries will recognize their own currency will increase in value to an extent that will surpass their losses on US currency, and they will dump and run.

            People seem to be SO excited to see the DJIA at 12k again, but they quickly forget (or fail to realize) that DJIA at 12k in 1999 is the same as DJIA at 15.5k today due to currency devaluation.

            When foreign countries realize the dollar is dragging down their currencies, and they begin to dump the dollar as the reserve currency, we will be in a HUGE world of hurt. I fear we may already be insolvent, but the US monetary policy is keeping us from feeling the pain. The next big bubble burst will be exquisitely painful for all of us here.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BlueHair View Post
              Japan tried to buy the U.S. back in the '80s.
              It is interesting you mentioned Japan. They WERE strong and had a great savings rate, but since the early 90s have pursued very poor monetary policies. The 'Lost Decade' of the 90s continued right through the 2000s, and much of their strength has been wiped out.

              China just passed Japan as the #2 economy in the world. Almost simultaneously our total debt reached the value of the US economy.

              We are headed not just for hyper-inflation, but a hyper-inflationary depression. We may (will) not be able to grow, or even claw, our way out of it.

              So the thing that scares me most is this: What will the US government do when people start marching/rioting in the streets?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
                It is interesting you mentioned Japan. They WERE strong and had a great savings rate, but since the early 90s have pursued very poor monetary policies. The 'Lost Decade' of the 90s continued right through the 2000s, and much of their strength has been wiped out.

                China just passed Japan as the #2 economy in the world. Almost simultaneously our total debt reached the value of the US economy.

                We are headed not just for hyper-inflation, but a hyper-inflationary depression. We may (will) not be able to grow, or even claw, our way out of it.

                So the thing that scares me most is this: What will the US government do when people start marching/rioting in the streets?
                :slap: You got to pull yourself together, man. If you're so worried, move to Brazil and learn Portuguese. China is nothing to fear. Brazil is the dynamo.
                "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am not worried about China. I am fluent in Mandarin. They are inextricably pegged to the dollar, and hold somewhere over $3T of our bonds. It is in their best interest to have a strong US and strong dollar. In fact, the US economy is still the strongest in the world precisely because it is owned by the Chinese...

                  I am only stating what has to happen to our dollar system.

                  I agree Brazil looks strong, and if the dollar crashes they are likely one of the beneficiaries (their currency value would skyrocket).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                    :slap: You got to pull yourself together, man. If you're so worried, move to Brazil and learn Portuguese. China is nothing to fear. Brazil is the dynamo.
                    One constant of brazil is that its always the country of the future (never the present)

                    Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using Tapatalk
                    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

                    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not sure how much of this I believe, but it did make me do some thinking:
                      http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pr...VD/OPSIM201/PR

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
                        One constant of brazil is that its always the country of the future (never the present)
                        Brazil can feed itself and can export energy well beyond its consumption. If they get this new dam built, they will be primed. Petrobras is constantly finding offshore fields, sugarcane ethanol is actually worth it, and most cars in Brazil can run on gas, gas/ethanol, or pure ethanol.

                        Oh, and the World Cup and the Olympics are heading onde Judas encontrou as botas.
                        "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                        The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rickomatic View Post
                          Not sure how much of this I believe, but it did make me do some thinking:
                          http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pr...VD/OPSIM201/PR
                          I didn't watch the video, but stay as far away from that guy as humanly possible. Do NOT subscribe to his newsletter, do not pass go, do not collect $100.

                          The guy (Porter Stansberry) is a fraud and a scammer, and was fined $1.5M by the SEC a few years back for various violations. By some accounts he bilks his way to ~$30M per year through various scams.

                          Some of what he says may very well be true (philosophies of men, mingled with truths) but be very wary of this person.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
                            I didn't watch the video, but stay as far away from that guy as humanly possible. Do NOT subscribe to his newsletter, do not pass go, do not collect $100.

                            The guy (Porter Stansberry) is a fraud and a scammer, and was fined $1.5M by the SEC a few years back for various violations. By some accounts he bilks his way to ~$30M per year through various scams.

                            Some of what he says may very well be true (philosophies of men, mingled with truths) but be very wary of this person.

                            So he is kind of a "Kevin Trudeau" type? Good to know.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                              Brazil can feed itself and can export energy well beyond its consumption. If they get this new dam built, they will be primed. Petrobras is constantly finding offshore fields, sugarcane ethanol is actually worth it, and most cars in Brazil can run on gas, gas/ethanol, or pure ethanol.

                              Oh, and the World Cup and the Olympics are heading onde Judas encontrou as botas.
                              Many of the idle oil rigs in the gulf are moving to Brazil, and they won't be coming back for at least a few years.

                              Brazil was smart enough to see a way to use their strengths (vast sugarcane fields and perfect climate for the crop) to solve some of their energy needs, and mandated their cars start moving towards ethanol conversions back in the 70s. Producing ethanol from sugarcane is extremely cheap and efficient method, requiring FAR less energy and water than from corn (which is actually a net loss on energy).

                              If our government would drop the ~$1/gallon tariff on imported ethanol, and sumultaneously drop the domestic ethanol subsidy we may actually see some benefit from using it as a fuel - despite the decreased mileage and other associated problems. Those two things will NEVER happen because of Iowa. The state of Iowa 1) grows corn and 2) elects presidents. Those subsidies will never end so long as these hold true.

                              As stated above, Brazil has always been the 'country of the future'. However if the US economy takes a huge dive, which I believe will necessarily happen, perhaps Brazil will then become the 'country of the present' as well.

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